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NJR
26-04-2008, 11:51
The following are from an article in the October 2005 Airfield Review by Graham Crisp. A few questions on this subject have been raised which hopefully can be answered here.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img006.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img014.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img015.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img016.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img017.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img018.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img019.jpg

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http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img021.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img022.jpg

NJR
26-04-2008, 11:51
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img023.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img024.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img025.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/img026.jpg

olympusman
26-04-2008, 12:13
Thanks NJR

Looks very interesting !

CDP
26-04-2008, 13:33
There is also a very good chapter in the following:

Smith, D. J. (1989) Britain's Military Airfields - 1939-45. Patrick Stephens Ltd (ISBN 1-85260-038-1)

Too much to summarise here but if you can grab hold of a copy, it's well worth it.

Chris

olympusman
26-04-2008, 18:02
Thanks for your suggestion

I ordered a second hand copy of "Britain's Military Airfields - 1939-45" today for 17 P&P included !

I was also advised of an very recent and interesting book "Drem: Scotland's Spitfire Airfield" by Malcolm Fife and published by GMS Enterprises.
The 'Drem lighting system' is also explained here.
Book can be obtained from the publishers via their website, www.gmsenterprises.net (http://www.gmsenterprises.net).

Paul Francis
26-04-2008, 20:36
I think you should see Graham Crisp's chapter on airfield lighting in my book 'Control Towers' - what graham dos'nt know about airfield lighting, is not worth knowing - he is the UK expert. Available still from the Airfield Research Group

binbrook74
26-04-2008, 21:30
Thats a very intersting article that was posted up.
I too have been intrigued in the history of airfield lighting.
Does anyone have a picture of the lorenz control panel that some airfields had fitted.
I know most wartime airfields had a mimic board (I think thats what it was called) which displayed the runway which was in use .I dont know if that was part of the airfield/runway lighting .
I hav the desk control panels for most of binbrooks airfield lighting which i posted a pic up on the binbrook thread.
I do also have the control panel for the runway traffic light system and arrestor barrier system.
I have seen the pics of the airfield lighting transformers which are still present at binbrook .I am currently trying to trace the owner of the building they are in to see if it will be possible to get hold off one to preserve before they get in such a condition they are past preserving.
Would be lovely to get it fully working again.
I will contact the owner of the picture to see if i can post it up.

Richard Flagg
26-04-2008, 22:06
I don't know if this has anything to do with lighting or whether it is do do with the approach or what, but it is on display at the Debach airfield museum.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Debach/DSC_0160.jpg

Can anyone shed some light on what its use would be?

Richard

binbrook74
26-04-2008, 22:12
That is defiantely the mimic board,But i dont understand what all the different coloured bulbs are which are placed around the airfield .
Will have a look around in books to see if i can see what they were for .

olympusman
27-04-2008, 09:02
I am currently busy negociating to expand my lighting collection to military equipment parallel with a book project and thematic displays in sight...
Huge work and project but very interesting !

olympusman
27-04-2008, 09:05
For what was the use of a mimic board ?
Landing, T/O and go-around patterns for example ?

binbrook74
27-04-2008, 09:15
So i can work out though i may be wrong it was used to show which runway was in use at the time plus it could also show which lighting was switched on around the airfield.
You made reference that you have a lighting collection.
I have various military lighting bits and pieces from control panels to a papi light which is still fully working.

olympusman
28-04-2008, 18:21
At the moment the lights are 'civil' only
The ones on abandoned fileds are still belonging to the MoD
But negociating the purchase of military lights... will be very hard but still trying and trying...

olympusman
28-04-2008, 18:22
Were the TWY lights of the DREM sytem stand alones (battery) or on a network ?

Carnaby
29-04-2008, 19:07
Re the AFL Mk.2 (Drem 2) Mimic Board posted above

Its purpose was to indicate which runway was in use, and which lights were selected. The tower could select from the six runways, then had separate switches for funnels, flarepath, taxi-track etc.

If you look at the E-W runway at the RH end:

The light just inside the peri-track is the Chance Floodlight indicator, it might also represent the Angle-of-Approach Indicator

The next pair going east are the Totem Poles

Next pair is the Inner Funnel

The 90 deg triangle is the Main / Outer Funnel

The curve running down and finishing in the middle bottom represents the Lead-In String

The peri-track has lights set into it, as has each runway representing the Flare-Path

Many mimic boards were custom built - not to a standard pattern, and not all airfields had all components of Drem installed. In particular the outer circle was frequently omitted as its purpose was to allow numbers of aircraft to orbit the base, and hence was really only vital to Bomber Command.

olympusman
29-04-2008, 20:06
I do understand that the "Drem Mk.2" is also known as "AFL Mk.2" ?

Were the RWY and TWY lamps stand alone units or in a network ?

CDP
29-04-2008, 20:36
From what I understand at airfields during wartime, the whole lot, RWY and TWY lamps, could be extinguished by a master switch should there have been intruders around. The master switch was located in the watch tower. Don't know about the chance light though as these were stand-alone items(?).

It must have been fun and games to alter the runway should the wind change at a grass-surfaced airfield in the early years in the war, when the goose-necks were in more common use!

Chris

olympusman
29-04-2008, 20:42
I would like to see ones a plan of the set up of a DREM approach system Mk.2 as we bought 6 airfield kits in Belgium around November 1946... but didn't find anything more till now : no plans, no pictures !
Hope that Britain's Military Airfields 1939-1945 will help me a bit to understand how it woked, etc...?

CDP
29-04-2008, 20:48
It's certainly a good start. You could also try contacting the RAF Museum at Hendon to see if they have official lighting plan layouts.

Try this link: http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/research/index.cfm

Chris

Carnaby
29-04-2008, 23:29
Airfield Lighting Mk.1 was a modification of the installation invented at RAF Drem. It was too restrictive for Bomber Command and went through a major upgrade to AFL Mk.2 which was the most common system during WWII. Though AFL 1 and 2 were the official terms, they were generally referred to as Drem 1 and 2.

The Mk.2 control panel had a six position rotary switch for runway selection, plus eight on/off switches for:
1 Selected Main (Outer) Funnel
2 Selected Fog (Inner and Intermediate) Funnels, plus Lead-in String
3 Entire taxi-track and dispersal lanes
4 Selected Chance Floodlight
5 Relevant Obstruction lights
6 Selected Runway Flarepath, plus Totem Poles and AAIs
7 Entire Outer Circle
8 Selected Lead Out Funnel (the Inner Funnel at the far end of the selected runway which provided a 'horizon' aid)

Four position brightness switches were available for: 6, 3, 7 and (1 & 2)
The panel also had four 'lamp failure' meters for: Main Funnel, Fog Funnel, Outer Circle, and Lead-out Funnel.

The meter normally read zero but would then show a positive reading
as bulbs failed in the appropriate circuits. These four were chosen as they were vital, and / or difficult to inspect at short notice.

All the above had two lamps per fitting for safety.

Drem 3 was supposed to be the ultimate, but the Air Ministry appears to have lost the plot over what was considered essential and what was actually installed, but generally added remote dimming for the 800yard crossbars on the runways, plus selectable tungsten / sodium lighting for the Funnels. Some 'Modified Mk.2' installations were definitely superior to some so-called Mk.3s

Carnaby
29-04-2008, 23:48
Re Binbrook - Lorenz panel

The Lorenz (RAF's SBA) control panel (Control Unit type 147) was a small angled box with six key-switches, 11 lights, jack plug and a hand operated 'ringer' generator. (I have a terrible photo)

There were separate switches for the Main Beacon, Inner Marker and Outer Marker. It's possible that monitoring equipment was installed connected to some of the lamps which would indicate if a beam failed.

The control tower could talk to a technician at either of the three sites via telephone.

(Source: AP 2523)

binbrook74
30-04-2008, 07:44
Thanks for that piece of information.
I dont suppose you could post that picture up of the control panel for me could you if possible as never seen it before.
I have posted pics of the lighting contoller up that was used in the bases last days in the airfield section on binbrook.
Any help on binbrooks control tower would be etremely helpfull
Thanks

olympusman
30-04-2008, 10:36
Thank CDP & Carnaby fot suggestion & explanations

As Binbrook's question, would be nice to see pictures of the control boxes !

olympusman
30-04-2008, 22:35
"Britain's Military Airfields 1939-45" was ordered saturday and today at home !

Looks very interesting !

Carnaby
01-05-2008, 00:23
Photo of SBA / Lorenz Control unit

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/CU_147.jpg

The captions above the top three switches are:

Inner Marker Main Beacon Outer Marker

I will try and find a more informative photo

olympusman
01-05-2008, 09:48
Thanks Carnaby for the Lorenz panel

Do you have a picture of a lighting system control panel ?

Just went thru "Britain's Military Airfields 1939-45"... very interesting !
Unfortunately, the drawings of the DREM Mk.I & II are not very well printed... does someone have better quality drawings of these 2 or other plans on the subject ?

Thanks for help !

Carnaby
02-05-2008, 00:49
I've got diagrams for lighting desks and airfield wiring. I'll dig them out and scan them after the weekend.

There is a lot of info and diagrams in:
Air Historical Branch, The Royal Air Force Builds for War: A History of Design and Construction in the RAF, 1935-1945 (TSO, 1997)

This is a reprint of the AHB official history 'Works' and has 65 pages on WWII AFL

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Royal-Air-Force ... 0117724696 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Royal-Air-Force-Builds-War/dp/0117724696)

binbrook74
02-05-2008, 09:23
I have some drawings of the vcr and local asssistants desk as used in the glass top vcr tower like manby's ,Binbrook and several other airfields.
These are originals that were found before binbrooks tower was demolished.
I also have plans for wing ops desk with all mountings for radar dispplays etc.
I doubt there is any of them around to view as most paperwork gets disposed off.
Surely there must be a archive of all the old psa /doe paperwork somewhere and post office telecommunications equipment.
I would love to find the old telephones ,control panles etc for my collection.Its just where do you start.
I am going to try and copy all my paperwork on to a cd for people to see.
There must be nearly 300 items all relating to binbrooks pabx room,Airfield communications,drawings for desks etc.

olympusman
02-05-2008, 11:34
I understand you strongly suggest to get a copy of "The Royal Air Force Builds for War: A History of Design and Construction in the RAF, 1935-1945"...?

Will I find quality plans of light set up, etc... in the above mentioned book ?

Richard Flagg
03-05-2008, 22:38
This I think is "Airfield Lighting" related, anyone help as to what it is?

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/NORFOLK/Watton/DSC_0270-1.jpg

Thanks

Richard

binbrook74
03-05-2008, 22:51
That looks like a landing light of somekind to me as most i saw at binbrook were painted yellow around edges as well as green.
What airfiled is that on.
Its a shame to see them damaged and left like that.
I can remember driving down binbrooks runway and everything was intact till kids got on there and kicked them to pieces :x
Can remember seeing the runway marker boards all in a pile on side of runway when they started pulling them all up too.

Richard Flagg
03-05-2008, 22:57
I should have said, its at Watton, Norfolk.

Where it I found it would indicate that it was either an approach light or a runway light but not being an expert (yet) I thought I'd ask the experts!

Richard

binbrook74
04-05-2008, 10:18
Shame to see it sat there like that.
Whats the chances of getting premission to recover it to preserve it .
As i see it every little thing airfield related has some kind of historical reason to preserve it.
Once it has dissapeared or been scrapped etc it could have been the only one left in existence.
I have been trying to find all kinds of airfield lighting and control tower systems for my collection but cant find anything.
Some people when they clear these sites dont seem to think anything has any historical interest then in say 20 years time all we are left with is pictures.
Maybe i am wrong in thinking in that way .

olympusman
04-05-2008, 10:28
Binbrook... I also tried to 'officially' save lighting on a close airbase in Belgium and did not get permission... all destroyed by vandals since !
And some of the lights were unique as from the 1950 era.
All present operational airbases have been updated about 10 years ago and most or all equipment sent in a container for scrap... !

binbrook74
04-05-2008, 10:34
Thats such a shame.
I was lucky in the fct i got permission of the land holders for my bits i collected.
Sometimes though i look back and think "If only i got more".
The case of if only i .You dont think at the time and wish you had more time to collect the parts before they were scrapped.
Lesson in life i suppose.

olympusman
04-05-2008, 11:04
The problem is that the Air Base I was speaking of, is still belonging to the MoD... I now try via another officiel way to save the last AFD lighting pieces of the old system that is still stored somewhere... and doens't look that bad at the moment !
Let's cross the fingers...

olympusman
05-05-2008, 20:22
Seen on "The Aviation Book Shop" website
Drem
Scotland's Spitfire Airfield
This Airfield Focus special charts the history & development of Drem airfield from its inception in WWI through the inter war years & WW2 until its closure as an RAF base in 1946.
DREM lighting system is also included
Fife
Edition: 2007, 136 pages.
Published 2007 by GMS Enterprises
9.99
ISBN : 1904514359

I you have a copy, comments are welcome !

contentd
09-05-2008, 22:57
Not sure this adds much to the thread... but here are some contemporary ads for airfield lighting systems.. and interesting nevertheless.

http://aviationancestry.com/Airfields/Equipment/Equipment-PillarOfFire-1939-1.html

Cheers
Dave

mawganmad
10-05-2008, 20:50
I have some drawings of the vcr and local asssistants desk as used in the glass top vcr tower like manby's ,Binbrook and several other airfields.
These are originals that were found before binbrooks tower was demolished.
I also have plans for wing ops desk with all mountings for radar dispplays etc.
I doubt there is any of them around to view as most paperwork gets disposed off.
Surely there must be a archive of all the old psa /doe paperwork somewhere and post office telecommunications equipment.
I would love to find the old telephones ,control panles etc for my collection.Its just where do you start.
I am going to try and copy all my paperwork on to a cd for people to see.
There must be nearly 300 items all relating to binbrooks pabx room,Airfield communications,drawings for desks etc.

Most of the equipment would be scrapped, either on unit or at Henlow. Any serviceable kit that is still usefull for installation elsewhere goes back to Henlow for maintanance and redistrubution.
Saw almost complete PAR consols scrapped at Mawgan.
Paper work is often binned unfortunately. Can't find any at St Athan and the tower is still in use!
I think you were very lucky to have access to this stuff at Binners, between standown and demolition, and thus saving it.

Denis
11-05-2008, 12:11
I rescued a runway light base from Matching airfield a couple of years ago. I was fortunate to have been given the heavy cast iron cover from Gosfield airfield a few months later. Wish I could find the actual light fitting, so I could wire it back up!

olympusman
12-05-2008, 14:30
Carnaby, isn't it a C6... ?

NJR
20-05-2008, 20:50
I know Richard posted a similar pic a while ago but I thought this may be of interest. Another mimic board, this time at Framlingham.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/RichardsSat10Sun11thMay08552.jpg

jason
27-05-2008, 19:49
Richard and i visited Coltishalls main runway a couple of weeks ago, i took these shots of the runway lighting. Can anyone tell me what they are.


http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/CAV037-1.jpg



http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/CAV038-2.jpg



http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/CAV039-1.jpg

mawganmad
27-05-2008, 20:35
They all look like threshold lighting, the first one part of the approach lighting on the threshold, hence facing one way, and designed so that it can be driven over.
Second one looks like one of the green end lights to the threshold bar, and the last one is hard to tell but looks like one of the lights that could be illuminated upwards to check the aircraft was ok during the landing phase.

NJR interesting mimic board picture, do you know ehy the red lights are in an arc patern on the runway approaches?

mawganmad
28-05-2008, 09:25
Just a quick update..
The first light can also be used as a centre line light or HI side light where a taxiway joins the runway, it is flush mounted to allow it to be driven/taxied over. For some reason alot (maybe all?) runways have more lighting facing one runway than the other. For instance here at Saints there is over double the amount of lights showing on 26 than on 08.
That is why the pictured one faces only one way. Most flush mounts can show both directions.

The second one is a green threshold bar light.

The final pic is a High Intensty Side Light (or RVR light, both same), all that is left is the bulb, holder and cable.

Richard Flagg
14-06-2008, 18:18
Does this count as Airfield lighting????

RAF Strubby, Communal Site.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/LINCOLNSHIRE/Strubby/DSC_0240-1.jpg

NJR
14-06-2008, 20:23
NJR interesting mimic board picture, do you know ehy the red lights are in an arc patern on the runway approaches?

Hi Mawganmad, I don't know why they are in arcs, circuit joining?

Carnaby
15-06-2008, 11:28
mawganmad - interesting mimic board picture, do you know ehy the red lights are in an arc patern on the runway approaches.
NJR - I don't know why they are in arcs, circuit joining
Hi guys,

The Framlingham mimic is quite unlike anything I've ever seen. The number and spacing of the approach lights for each runway is very inconsistent.

Possibly these red lights are meant to show a combined lead-in and funnel system, but confusingly.

The subsidiary Rwy17 seems to have the most extensive approach; the main, Rwy28, shows an inferior implementation.

There is a single light on each runway's extended centre-line, which does not relate to anything found in a practical installation.

This station was equipped with Drem II, but, being 8th AF, would almost certainly have had the Bartow HILV system added late 1944 / early 1945.

I wonder if it is genuine or a re-creation?

mawganmad
16-06-2008, 09:10
It is slightly odd, especially that if yuo were to follow the track of the arc, you wouldnt arrive at the runway.
Maybe as suggested its primary use was something to do with formation joins into a position befor recovery (basic holding patten)?
Or maybe even a SID before there was such a thing?

Richard Flagg
13-07-2008, 17:30
Bentwaters runway lights

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Bentwaters/DSC_0046-1-2.jpg

olympusman
13-07-2008, 17:50
When back from my vacations, I'll sent pictures of the lighting equipment used in Belgium from 1953 up to 1996 !

mawganmad
13-07-2008, 21:24
Anyone want some? PM me

CDP
14-07-2008, 11:44
I thought this was the Airfield INFORMATION Exchange, not the Airfield PARTS Exchange! :wink:

Mind you, if anyone has a spare tower :roll:

Chris

canberra
04-01-2009, 18:49
I can easily explain why some runways have more lights than others, the one with the most lighing is the main instrument runway. So it will have both high and low intensity lights. Wheras secondary runways will just have high intensity lights.

And yes kit from units that have closed does in deed go back to Henlow. Barkston heath got Wildenraths PAR consoles and was going to get the PAR as well beofer it was decided not to pur PAR in.

binbrook74
04-01-2009, 20:49
So what was the omni lighting ?
Just looking at some parts i have here from binbrook.
I have 1 item which has a big ammeter gauge on it and two switches.
circuit selection switch "b" check with 5 positions as follows
1. red tea 03.liap
2. 03 thld
3. 21 hisl
4. 03 hisl
5. hiap ct.2

panel selection switch "a" with 6 positions
also has a big yellow push switch.

dated in writing on inside of panel oct 7th 1965.

And i also have parts of a airfield lighting circuit regulator a.m.w.d type scr/650/12/mk111/d
year 1962.
Made by parmeko ltd of leicester.
can anyone tell me anymore about this units or how there operated ?

i do have a cover of another unit labelled as follows

controlled unit type d9a also made by parmeko.
It has wrote on the front in red pen red green.
I acn only presume this is to do with the traffic lights .
There was a pair of them on the wall if i rememer correctly years ago.
the building must have been one of the a r b centres i guess.
Any help would be greatfully appreciated

Ant1981
07-01-2009, 20:20
I can easily explain why some runways have more lights than others, the one with the most lighing is the main instrument runway. So it will have both high and low intensity lights. Wheras secondary runways will just have high intensity lights.

And yes kit from units that have closed does in deed go back to Henlow. Barkston heath got Wildenraths PAR consoles and was going to get the PAR as well beofer it was decided not to pur PAR in.

Isn't usually a non precision runway fitted with low intensity? An airfield in particular that I worked on only had one precision heading and the non precision heading had only low intensity side lights.

Ant1981
07-01-2009, 20:35
So what was the omni lighting ?
Just looking at some parts i have here from binbrook.
I have 1 item which has a big ammeter gauge on it and two switches.
circuit selection switch "b" check with 5 positions as follows
1. red tea 03.liap
2. 03 thld
3. 21 hisl
4. 03 hisl
5. hiap ct.2

panel selection switch "a" with 6 positions
also has a big yellow push switch.

dated in writing on inside of panel oct 7th 1965.


Sounds like there you have a part of an old Cable Termination Panel, which as well as terminating the connections from the SCR before the cables went out to the airfield, the gauge was also used to check the current being drawn by which ever circuit was selected for monitoring.



And i also have parts of a airfield lighting circuit regulator a.m.w.d type scr/650/12/mk111/d
year 1962.
Made by parmeko ltd of leicester.
can anyone tell me anymore about this units or how there operated ?


That is a part of an SCR, Series Current Regulator. I have limited knowledge of these as by the time I worked on airfield lighting, we were using the later CCR's, but the SCR wasn't too different. Series circuit, remote controlled and the ablity to control it locally by airfield electricians. Two phases into the transformer and the SCR would step up/down as required.



i do have a cover of another unit labelled as follows

controlled unit type d9a also made by parmeko.
It has wrote on the front in red pen red green.
I acn only presume this is to do with the traffic lights .
There was a pair of them on the wall if i rememer correctly years ago.
the building must have been one of the a r b centres i guess.
Any help would be greatfully appreciated

D9's, I had the pleasure. There were several types, A and B. Used in many ways, for controlling traffic lights on airfields found at thresholds. Situated usually in B centres and usually connected directly to the 'Airfield' control cable and directly connected to air traffic control, rather than being connected into the USC (pre 70s) or MCS (70s onwards) controls incase of major control malfunction.

Other uses were for the Airport Identification Beacon and Airfield Obstruction Lighting. In 'A Centres' (at the bottom of the tower), there can be sometimes found some for traffic lights for an MT route and of course the Airfield Obstruction Light.

D9s dated as early as the 50s were still in use until very recently when Defence Estates ordered all to be replaced for safety reasons, following an incident with one on an active airfield. That's not to say that there hasn't been some left untouched. The replacements that have been available since the 90's possibly earlier are easier to maintain and called D20s for traffic lights and D23s for equipment not requiring 'true back indication' such as Identification Beacons and Obstruction Lights.

canberra
07-01-2009, 20:35
At Barkston IIRC 24 which was the main had high and low, the other three just had high intenstiy lights.

As I said thats IIRC. Out of 23 years in the ATC branch only 7 were actually spent in towers so Im probably a bit rausty on the lighting front!!!

Ant1981
07-01-2009, 20:41
They were probably precision headings then, with or without ILS.

Ant1981
07-01-2009, 21:55
From page 3...


Richard and i visited Coltishalls main runway a couple of weeks ago, i took these shots of the runway lighting. Can anyone tell me what they are.



First photo is a Thorn HIA B1 green theshold lighting fitting, as said, can be driven over being inset and very strong. These are also used without the green filters for an inset HIA (high intensity approach). Have been in use for years and still in use. I ordered for an airfield, two of these plus two of the others you may have seen that sit inbetween these, the red end bars, Thorn ERH B2T and got billed for 4,000. So very expensive. A post on a previous page states that these are used also as runway edge where a taxiway meets a runway. It would be rather unusal to see this, as these are essentially approach fittings and have coverage for an approach/threshold. There are specific inset runway edge lights, that meet the coverage required by regulations. Popular use on military airfields are such inset fittings as the Alstom ZA173/18, which is Bi-Directional. As for centre line, again the HIA B1 is only in the approach crossbar and centre line, where they are inset i.e displaced thresholds, not runway centre line, again dedicated runway lighting with specified coverage for runway centreline for such use.

The second photo looks like an elevated wing bar fitting, looks like the Alstom ZA415 fitting. There are other ZA numbers which look very similar indeed which it could be.

The third, hard to tell what it is, seeing as only the lampholder is present. Could be from an approach, or a runway edge or RVR light, without seeing it's exact location, hard to tell.

I find it fascinating to know that everything that was in use that is no longer in use, is all still there and intact. What is the access like at Coltishall then? I wonder if the A and B centres and the tower still have equipment in? Seems a shame, but if the MOD have no further use, then why not close up, that's life.

Also to add, I can post images of the above fittings illuminated and in use if you wish.

binbrook74
08-01-2009, 19:33
It would be very intersting if you could post up anything you know about airfield lighting as its something tht is facinating me with all the pieces i have including a working set of papi lights .

Ant1981
08-01-2009, 20:16
Anything you want to know, just ask and I'll do my best.

One thing I could mention as I've read on a previous page, mawganmad wanted to know why one heading would have more lighting than the other. It is simply because on some airfields, not all headings are often Hi Intensity, or Precision Approach. On many other airfields, they are Hi Intensity and Precision Approach on both headings (in AGL terms, not necessarily including ILS on both headings), so have the same amount of lights for both ways

sailormoon_01_uk
11-01-2009, 23:01
Hi All

I am New here, I am keen on Airfield/Runway Lighting and Lamps, I have a large Collection of Both Civil and Military Lights from all over the World ranging from a Ex RAF Tangmere Approach Light from the 1940's to Modern Lights say a Thorn EL-ATC Approach Light as used on Airports Today for details see Airport Runway Lighting Page (http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light) I also have a wide collecton of lamps from a vintage Filament lamp as used in the vintage Airway Beacons (Before the days or Radio Beacons) to modern Halogen Lamps as found in todays Runway Lights see Airport Runway Lamps Page (http://airport-lamps.webs.com/)

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
11-01-2009, 23:34
Yesterday I recieved 12 x 8.33a 200w J1/73 Airfield Lamps but I have No Idea what type of fitting they are used in.

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/Unknown-J1-73-8.33a-200w-Airport-Lamp-with-ES-Cap.jpg

All the Best

Colin

Ant1981
11-01-2009, 23:46
Quite an old one. Possibly 1980's I think, judging by the 8.33A current rating. Indeed hard to say which fittings they would have been used in. Being 200w, I could guess approach lighting as one application.

PNK
12-01-2009, 07:39
Not knowing much about airfield lighting I would assume the reliability of any fitting is a darn sight better than your domestic fitting and therefore on a different planet pricewise. The same goes for the lamps. If they are as reliable as the ones in our house it will be a full time job changing them. So I assume the cost of lamps is also very high to give reliability?

sailormoon_01_uk
12-01-2009, 09:54
Airfield Lights are quite hard to find in the UK, sometimes they do appear on the UK E-bay for say 5 for the GEC inset Taxiway Lights to 15 for the Ex RAF Benson Lights but on the US E-bay they are always listed, and depending on the light are vey cheap I paid say $10 USD for the Elevated Runway Lights and $52 USD for insured Postage via Priority Airmail, say 40 all in, As for most Lights I actually have they were sent to me by other collectors from both the UK Australia and the USA,

Airfield Lamps vary in prices too from say 1.00 on E-bay to about 40. from a Lamp Supplier they have a various Life from only 50 hours for say the old Incandescent lamps such as a J1/27 which was 6.6a 100w, to modern Halogen Lamps which have a 1000 hour life, lamps used in Obstruction lights ( the red lights used on towers/ Buildings etc they use filament lamps with a 8000 hour life to Neon or Xeneon Strobe Lights which have many years of life.

As Airfield Lamps have to be accurately focused in the fittings they have Special caps which aligns the filaments correctly in the fitting, re the J1/73 as above I have looked in my collection of old Catalogues and the nearest I can find is a J1/72 which is a 240/250v 200w version which is used in a GEC/Alstom Obstruction Light such as the ZA763/4 and ZA773 Lights, I guess the J1/73 was then used on Airfield lighting circuits or on a 24 volt battery (200 watts divided by 6.6amps = 24 volts) especially where Mains Electricity is not installed. such as remote in the country or on a Emergency Airfield such as a War Zone etc.

Most Airfield Lamps run on a Series Circuit at fill power they are 6.6 amps or on some installations 8.33 amps on AMerican Airfields/Airports they also use a 20 amp system

Airfield Lamps run as follows
500 watts on 20a they are 25 volts
300 watts on 20a they are 15 volts
300 watts on 8.33a they are 36 volts
200 watts on 6.6a they are 30 volts
200 watts on 8.33a they are 24 volts
150 watts on 6.6a they are about 22 volts
100 watts on 6.6a they are 15 volts
100 watts on 8.33a they are 12 volts
65 watts on 6.6a they are about 9.6 volts
45 watts on 6.6a they are about 6.8 volts
36 watts on a 6a they are 6 volts
30 watts on 6.6a they are about 4.5 volts

Other lamps used on Parallel circuits especialy in the USA used mains voltage Lamps (120 volts) in the UK some lights are run on 240 volts (such as Obstruction Lights, Wigwags Runway Marker Boards, Etc, or in conjunction with a transformer example 240v to 12 volts to run a 100 watt Airfield Light.

All the Best

Colin

olympusman
12-01-2009, 11:38
I have many civil airfield lighting (up to the 60ties - ADB/Siemens only) for exchange but don't find amateurs to swop... looks like that there are not that much 'crazy collectors' around... problem is the P&P price... any Belgian around ?

Carnaby
12-01-2009, 14:22
Most Airfield Lamps run on a Series Circuit at full power they are 6.6 amps Colin
Does anyone know where this value originated from - it was certainly in use in the 1930s?

Graham

olympusman
12-01-2009, 15:12
We are standard 6.6A for all airfields in Belgium since the fifties
Before, we bought some RAF surplus DREM kits for a couple of military airfields.

Carnaby
I went through an old "Belgian Air Force Airfield Lighting Course" and didn't find any interesting info to answer your question, unfortunately

sailormoon_01_uk
12-01-2009, 17:36
Hi Guys you may find this document interesting MILITARY HANDBOOK Airfield Lighting see http://combatindex.com/mil_docs/pdf/hdb ... 1023_1.pdf (http://combatindex.com/mil_docs/pdf/hdbk/1000/MIL-HDBK-1023_1.pdf) and VISUAL AIR NAVIGATION FACILITIES see http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_535_01.pdf
these files cover all aspects of Airfield Lighting for the USAF.

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
12-01-2009, 18:17
It's a pity there is not many people in the UK selling Airfield Lights as I am looking for the following lights

4344
Any Inset Runway Touchdown Zone Light


4343
Any Twin Lamp Airport Obstruction Light.

All the Best

Colin

olympusman
12-01-2009, 18:31
Colin

Thanks for the 2 links.... VERRRRY interesting of course

I am suffering of the same problem... no one in Belgium interested in swopping ADB airfield lighting equipment... have many boxes with TWY lights form the 60ties up to the the end of 90ties !
I have the possibilty to get an old (big) regulator + PAPI but do not have room to store it... so, just lights !

ADB is the standard airfield equipment since the 50ties in Belgium

Ant1981
12-01-2009, 20:10
Colin


I have the possibilty to get an old (big) regulator + PAPI but do not have room to store it... so, just lights !



Put the PAPI in your garden. And you'll be needing a crane for that regulator, they weigh a ton, usually delivered by a hi-ab.

olympusman
12-01-2009, 21:06
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk185/olympusman/regulator.jpg

The big ones will be shut down in a couple of days.

Can get them all but the small ones are handier, isn't it... ?

I prefer to collect lights only !

Ant1981
12-01-2009, 21:09
.

As Airfield Lamps have to be accurately focused in the fittings they have Special caps which aligns the filaments correctly in the fitting, re the J1/73 as above I have looked in my collection of old Catalogues and the nearest I can find is a J1/72 which is a 240/250v 200w version which is used in a GEC/Alstom Obstruction Light such as the ZA763/4 and ZA773 Lights, I guess the J1/73 was then used on Airfield lighting circuits or on a 24 volt battery (200 watts divided by 6.6amps = 24 volts) especially where Mains Electricity is not installed. such as remote in the country or on a Emergency Airfield such as a War Zone etc.

Most Airfield Lamps run on a Series Circuit at fill power they are 6.6 amps or on some installations 8.33 amps on AMerican Airfields/Airports they also use a 20 amp system

Other lamps used on Parallel circuits especialy in the USA used mains voltage Lamps (120 volts) in the UK some lights are run on 240 volts (such as Obstruction Lights, Wigwags Runway Marker Boards, Etc, or in conjunction with a transformer example 240v to 12 volts to run a 100 watt Airfield Light.

All the Best

Colin

I can't speak for the Americans but in the UK, 8.33 amps went a long time ago, 6.6A or 6A as they are usually set to is used per lamp.

The 24 volts across that lamp (or any AGL lamp) you have is a make up of the potential divider of the series circuit on the secondary side of a mains powered regulator, once the inductive and capacitive reactance of the circuit has been calculated for, plus current transformer losses which is usually about 10% lost by heat dissipation.

The battery powered lights I can't imagine supplying that current, the batteries would be huge and heavy to supply it for long enough. I've installed some battery/solar powered airfield lights before, but they're not for low visibility conditions and only low intensity. Only regulated AGL can meet ICAO standards for CAT I, II and III operation for visibility.

The emergency packs used in 'war zones' can be a quick throw together plug in kit powered by a generator, or even a set of less bright battery powered low intensities and even they're heavy enough.

Ant1981
12-01-2009, 21:12
The big ones will be shut down in a couple of days.

Can get them all but the small ones are handier, isn't it... ?

I prefer to collect lights only !

Are the big ones being used still? Where abouts are they?

olympusman
13-01-2009, 07:25
The big ones will be shut down in a couple of days.

Can get them all but the small ones are handier, isn't it... ?

I prefer to collect lights only !

Are the big ones being used still? Where abouts are they?

As I wrote, "The big ones will be shut down in a couple of days"
A new regulator will be put in place as soon as the new TWY is build (2010)

2 of the 5 regulators on the picture (somewhere in Belgium) are from 'BBT' (France) that was later taken over by 'ADB' (now part of Siemens).
ADB is the leader world wide (up to now...) for airfield lighting equipment !

binbrook74
13-01-2009, 19:12
They look a little bit smaller than what binbrook has left .
Alll i can say is there extremely heavy to move

binbrook74
13-01-2009, 19:17
It's a pity there is not many people in the UK selling Airfield Lights as I am looking for the following lights

All the Best

Colin


I have a gec papi light but sorry to say its not up for sale but your more than welcome to have photos of it with or without the cover on.
Did have them wired up once but didnt think the neighbours appreciated having there house lit up like a xmas tree so not ran them in years now.

canberra
13-01-2009, 19:50
Why not go to Coltishall and "borrow" all the lighting there??

Ant1981
13-01-2009, 20:45
Because it's still owned by Defence Estates and would be a crown offence.

canberra
13-01-2009, 20:50
As a taxpayer I like to see I get value for money for my tax pounds, so why are they leaving all the lighting to fester away?? Personally I wouldnt be suprised if someone hasnt already started removing lights and even cabling.

Ant1981
13-01-2009, 20:53
The cables would be far too much work than it's worth to dig up. The lights are left as it's no longer used. It's a shame, I know it is, but still I wouldn't reccomend someone break the law, but what they do end up doing is indeed up to them.

canberra
13-01-2009, 21:05
When Pitreavie Castle closed someone suggested donating the kitchen equiptment in the underground HQ to a local college, that request was turned down flat by the powers that be. So it was left in the HQ and the bunker was sealed, what a waste. But a few years before hand MOD spent 30,000 on new curtains for a senior officers residence!

Ant1981
13-01-2009, 21:11
Alot of contractors that DE employ on a long term basis for the maintenance of the site, end up having to spend tens of thousands of pounds on work despite a confirmed closure of the station. Work such as refurbishments ect that are priced for in the contract.

If this work isn't done by the time the contract ceases, the contractor faces heavy fines and hence loses out, even though it's an early closure of contract becuase of station closure which may have not been on the cards when the contract was signed for.

binbrook74
14-01-2009, 01:01
Its such a shame that this stuff isn available till its all gone .Unless it gets left and then the farmer decides to let you have it once they have reclaimed the land cause its the same as most things .Everything gets scrapped or damaged beyond repair next minute its non existent.
Its a shame .I have seen so much just piled into twisted metal and scrapped and wished it had been saved before that happened .

Richard Flagg
14-01-2009, 10:17
Because it's still owned by Defence Estates and would be a crown offence.

Coltishall is now owned by the Home Office - but it would still be an offence to remove the lights.

canberra
14-01-2009, 18:18
Prisons are the resbonsibilty of the ministry of justice not the home office.

Arcade Al
15-01-2009, 01:33
Prisons are the resbonsibilty of the ministry of justice not the home office.

Wow, I didn't even know that existed!
http://www.justice.gov.uk/

Sounds like something from RoboCop! :shock:

canberra
15-01-2009, 08:29
Thats who I work for!

olympusman
15-01-2009, 11:20
You probably know this website... ?

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/

binbrook74
17-01-2009, 18:47
Can anyone explain what a omni light please as have a panel with omni light marked on it and wondered what this was .

Ant1981
17-01-2009, 18:57
Omni is an abbreviation for Omni-Directional, meaning that the light can be viewed at all angles, 360 degrees all round.

binbrook74
17-01-2009, 19:11
So that would have been the ones on the side of the runways i would guess then with two lower lights attached

Ant1981
17-01-2009, 19:16
Yes, there are Omni-direction side lights, which are low intensity and yes often installed at 90m intervals inbetween two Uni-directional high intensity side lights that face opposite headings.

binbrook74
17-01-2009, 19:32
How are the traffic lights controlled on the airfield.
I have posted pics of the controller which i have on the binbrook page but cant figure out how they controlled the various parts of the airfield independantly.

Ant1981
17-01-2009, 19:47
They are controlled by air traffic control and assuming military, the controls are 'direct wire' through the modular control systems and onto the airfield control cable ring. One pair of cables for control and another for 'back indication' to confirm to air traffic control that the lights are red, as often the aspect isn't visible from the tower. In a 'B centre' there is a controller unit that takes the control signals and switches green/red as required to the traffic lights which are supplied by 240 volts. In the traffic light is a transformer for using a 12v lamp.

binbrook74
17-01-2009, 20:02
I take it the d9a controller is one of the units you are referring to in the b centre ?

Ant1981
17-01-2009, 20:54
It is, yes. Since been replaced by a D20 for traffic lights.

The D9 a and b were used to contol other equipment also. Where 'true back indication' is not a requirment, a cheaper replacement is the D23.

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 01:01
All very interesting stuff thankyou.
Be nice to have a working set up one day once i get all the equipment to control it and work out how to wire it all up.

Ant1981
18-01-2009, 14:29
Do you have a traffic light? The whole MCS set up, if that's a part of anything you have might take a bit of space up though. You could easily fashion a simple control system though.

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 20:26
I have a traffic light and the cntrol panel out of the vcr room .
Just trying to get holf off a d9a unit now.
What is the mcs u referred too ?

Ant1981
18-01-2009, 20:33
Modular Control Systems, sits inbetween the control buttons in the VCR and the airfield ring. From the airfield ring onto either 'D' units if 'direct wire' or onto another MCS in a 'B' centre for systems not direct wire.

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 20:37
Not seen one of these mcs units as of yet .
Shall have to keep looking for one ,If i knew what i was looking for .

Ant1981
18-01-2009, 21:01
MCS is often taken away for parts by DE or DE contractors, some airfields have had them left to gather cobwebs.

Post up a photo of what VCR controls you have, I'll be able to tell if it is a part of the MCS or earlier controls.

Here's what an MCS rack looks like, in an 'A Centre'.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/ACentre-23-03-2007-0002.jpg

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 22:22
Now i have seen a case similar to that at binbrook but all that was left in it was the connector plugs and the rest seems to have vanished so i presume someone has stripped it for the circuit boards.
Here is a picture of my control panel for you to see.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/toSmall.jpg

and the lighting switches

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0291Small.jpg

Ant1981
18-01-2009, 22:27
Yes they are early MSC VCR modules.

RHAG, NET and traffic light modules are custom made for where they are going as they reflect the physical layout of the airfield as viewed from the tower.

Alot of the time, the cards from the MCS rack end up with the DE contractor who was looking after that airfield, who are also looking after other active airfields.

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 22:32
So what exactly is the difference between a 'a' center and a 'b' center ?
I know binbrooks tower plan shows the 'a' center on the ground floor so i presume the 'b' center is the one on the airfield i guess.
Do you have any more pics of 'a' or 'b' centers at all

Ant1981
18-01-2009, 23:01
All 'A Centres' are at the base of the tower and that is where all the cables from the VCR lighting desk terminated into the 'A Centre' MCS rack.

The 'A Centre' MCS is connected by the airfield ring cable into the 'B Centre' MCS. There are usually two 'B Centres' per runway. The usual location is 500ft or so from the threshold, to the side. The 'B Centre' is where you'll find CCRs, where airfield lighting is terminated and powered from. Also threshold traffic lights and other services get their power from there, such as RHAGs and NET barriers, or even a glidepath or localiser if not powered from a substation feeder pillar.

Typical B Centre MCS rack, with D22 to the left that controls taxiway lights and often a provision for traffic light black out.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/RAFBensonB1B-17-01-2007-0002.jpg

A tiny 'B Centre' with CCRs and the smaller units are TMS-E's used for taxiways. Note one with a unit on top as I were working on it at the time.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1B-13-12-2007_0009.jpg

Another shot of the 'B Centre' MCS, also top right is a D20 which replaced the D9's. Far left, MCS battery charger and batteries to the right.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1B-13-12-2007_0015.jpg

A larger 'B Centre' with CCRs. In the background are the cable termination panels with a digital current read out.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1ACCRs-13-02-2008_0137.jpg

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 23:20
The regulators look a lot more modern than the ones binbrook had installed ,PLus binbrooks was all over head cables which there is only the racking left.
Bet it was always nice and warm in them buildings.

Ant1981
18-01-2009, 23:28
The regulators you saw were most likely SCRs in that case.

Another look at a 'B Centre' with overhead cables

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/NortholtB1B-23-03-2008_0094.jpg

And up close of the latest type of CCR, called the 'Micro CCR' as being micro processor controlled

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/NortholtB1B-23-03-2008_0110.jpg

It isn't really warm in there, even considering the equipment in there. Still freezing in the winter unless the heaters are on.

Paul Francis
18-01-2009, 23:30
Yawn!, I never thought we would have eight pages (yawn) on airfield lighting and Carnaby is nowhere to be seen? (Only joking chaps). Actually WW2 lighting is very interesting. Mr Carnaby has original cloth maps of Tilstock showing the airfield lighting installation that he is looking after for me - we might have Ternhill aswell or bits of it. I think we have post war lighting diagrams too in the archives somewhere plus M&E drawings for some of the post-war control tower designs.

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 23:47
They would be very interesting to see as not much out there relating to the old wartime lighting and how it was laid out so would be nice to see some of it .

Ant1981
18-01-2009, 23:52
I took this photo of an inset Bi-Directional runway edge light on a disused runway of an active airfield. I'm told they are circa 1940s +

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/RW24-06inset-21-12-2007_0050.jpg

binbrook74
18-01-2009, 23:56
Not quite sure on the date but i would have presumed so

Ant1981
19-01-2009, 00:04
Interesting how they re surfaced around some and covered the others. This runway was in use for visual landings up until I think some time in the 90s. It would have been possibly around some time in the 60s where all the lighting on this runway was discontinued from service judging by the bits and pieces I've seen on the runway and the disused 'B Centre' for this runway. I beleive this was the case with alot of airfields in the MOD that had two or three runways, leaving only one runway with a full AGL installation. I know of few that had basic low intensity lighting on secondary runways in recent times. Lyneham and Brize I think still have a second runway lit, probably due to the larger aircraft there.

binbrook74
19-01-2009, 00:10
Which airfield was this then.
So i gather each runway had its own 'b' centre not just two for each airfield ?

Ant1981
19-01-2009, 00:14
Each runway has two each. Some in early days had just the one, with another added later.

That inset light is at Benson.

Ant1981
19-01-2009, 19:16
I have a traffic light and the cntrol panel out of the vcr room .
Just trying to get holf off a d9a unit now.


Just reading back a page, if I had of known a year or so ago, I got rid of 20 plus D9s!

sailormoon_01_uk
19-01-2009, 22:19
I agree It's not worth breaking the Law getting Airfield lights it's best waiting for them to appear on E-bay or if any Airfield is getting upgraded you may get offered some lights

Yesterday I got dropped off a few more Lights from a Fellow collector, they are as follows

CEGELEC ZA202 Inset Airfield Runway/Taxiway Light with Blue Glass filter for a G6.35 Halogen Airfield Lamp see HERE (http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/CEGELEC-ZA202-Taxiway-Edge-Light.jpg)

Thorn IN-OMA-R Red Omnidirectional Apron/Taxiway Edge Light see HERE (http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Thorn-IN-OMA-R-Taxiway-Edge-Light.jpg)

Thorn IN-TTC Taxiway Centreline Light (Curves) see HERE (http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Thorn-IN-TTC-Taxiway-Centreline-Light.jpg) and

2 x CEGELEC (Former GEC Airport Lighting Ltd) ZA760/1 Neon Low Intensity Group A Obstruction Lights see HERE (http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/CEGELC-ZA760-Obstruction-Lights.JPG)

Note These Lights need testing the 2nd is missing the NEON Tube

From a US Collector of Lamps I recieved a US Sylvania 120v 620w Coded Beacon / Obstruction Lamp see HERE (http://airport-lamps.webs.com/US-Sylvania-Coded-Beacon-Lamp.jpg)

All the Best

Colin

Paul Francis
19-01-2009, 22:40
Wow Sailor Moon etc, if Carnaby was here he would be climbing the walls for that collection. Where the hell is he??

sailormoon_01_uk
20-01-2009, 10:58
Thanks

I live in Merseyside,

All the Best

Colin

olympusman
20-01-2009, 12:19
As soon as the lighting equipment is withdrawn from, it is mostly sold as scrap iron... up yo you to have the right contact to trace the equipment and buy it !
Not always necessary to buy it via e-bay... those guys get it from free ! ! !
You can do the same...

You have more chance via civil airports and they have sometimes the same equipment a

Carnaby
26-01-2009, 15:48
Yawn!, I never thought we would have eight pages (yawn) on airfield lighting and Carnaby is nowhere to be seen?
Then: Wow Sailor Moon etc, if Carnaby was here he would be climbing the walls for that collection. Where the hell is he??

I've just woken up :roll:
The fitting on previous page (Ant1981 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:52 pm ) is a 'Type C6' Drem Mk.II flarepath fitting, used 1941-45. Only usable in blackout conditions, hence almost useless post WWII.

Now if someone finds me a Mk.I Drem Flarepath fitting I will climb walls :lol:

Graham

sailormoon_01_uk
28-01-2009, 15:16
Hi a

As to date I can't fond a GEC ZA126 I removed the lens off my Aircraft carrier landing Light and placed in one of my ZA415 Approach/Runway Edge Lights.

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA126-Runway-Threshold-Light.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA126-Runway-Threshold-Light-lit.jpg

this light is fitted with a 12v 50w Halogen Lamp and tested on a 12v 50w lighting transformer as would be seen on runway thresholds on RAF Airfields

All the Best

Colin

Ant1981
28-01-2009, 20:25
Yawn!, I never thought we would have eight pages (yawn) on airfield lighting and Carnaby is nowhere to be seen?
Then: Wow Sailor Moon etc, if Carnaby was here he would be climbing the walls for that collection. Where the hell is he??

I've just woken up :roll:
The fitting on previous page (Ant1981 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:52 pm ) is a 'Type C6' Drem Mk.II flarepath fitting, used 1941-45. Only usable in blackout conditions, hence almost useless post WWII.

Now if someone finds me a Mk.I Drem Flarepath fitting I will climb walls :lol:

Graham

As flarepath was well before my time, I never got to see actual specifications. I know sodium flarepath was in the grass along one side of the runway, but that inset, which was bi-direction was installed at both sides, in a typical runway edge fashion.

canberra
28-01-2009, 20:36
When I worked in towers I knew nothing about the lights themselves, all we did was switch on or off and control the intensity. Blimey the things Im learning!

Ant1981
28-01-2009, 20:44
When I worked in towers I knew nothing about the lights themselves, all we did was switch on or off and control the intensity. Blimey the things Im learning!

And you just thought, they entered the active, had a fiddle, then reported vacated and drank tea :lol:

Ant1981
28-01-2009, 20:53
Hi a

As to date I can't fond a GEC ZA126 I removed the lens off my Aircraft carrier landing Light and placed in one of my ZA415 Approach/Runway Edge Lights.

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA126-Runway-Threshold-Light.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA126-Runway-Threshold-Light-lit.jpg

this light is fitted with a 12v 50w Halogen Lamp and tested on a 12v 50w lighting transformer as would be seen on runway thresholds on RAF Airfields

All the Best

Colin

In their application, they're not fitted with 50w 12v lamps. If it's an elevated threshold/winbar fitting, it shall be fitted with a 200W 6A lamp, which will have a series voltage of 33.3V.

sailormoon_01_uk
28-01-2009, 21:32
HI Ant

Yep in the Airfield application they would be fitted with a J1/39 6.6a 200w Tungsten Halogen Lamp,

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/Osram-200w-J1-39-Airport-Lamp.jpg

as it's in my collection and not used as a aeronautical light I have fitted it with standard 12v 50w Halogen Lamp which you can buy from any hardware store etc

http://www.freewebs.com/lamps002/Status-12v-50w-G6-35-Halogen-Lamps.jpg

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
31-01-2009, 15:23
This I think is "Airfield Lighting" related, anyone help as to what it is?

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/NORFOLK/Watton/DSC_0270-1.jpg

Thanks

Richard


This Light looks like a old Wig-wag, this is a pair of amber lights at each side of the taxiway as ie enters the runway they flash in sequence like railway crossing lights for aircraft to wait before entering the active runway

sailormoon_01_uk
31-01-2009, 15:53
Does this count as Airfield lighting????

RAF Strubby, Communal Site.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/LINCOLNSHIRE/Strubby/DSC_0240-1.jpg

they are technically Street lighting (as they are situated on a Airfield they are Full Cutoff Lights, they are designed to emit NO light upwards which can cause confusion in bad weather as Runway /Approach Lights, this reccomendation is still used today, see HERE (http://http://www.gaac.co.uk/news/caa-aoa-gaac-advice%20note%202-jan03.PDF)

Richard Flagg
31-01-2009, 15:54
This Light looks like a old Wig-wag, this is a pair of amber lights at each side of the taxiway as ie enters the runway they flash in sequence like railway crossing lights for aircraft to wait before entering the active runway


Thanks for that, do you have a photo of one in good or working condition? Is a wig-wag light the correct term for it? If not what is the official name?

Thanks

sailormoon_01_uk
31-01-2009, 16:13
Sorry I dont have a photo but see http://www.atgairports.com/product-detail.php?i=24 for the ATG Airports version,

Wigwags are a nickname they have been given by pilots etc the proper name are Runway Guard Lights, they now use LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes) older lights used filament bulbs

All the Best

Colin

Richard Flagg
31-01-2009, 16:23
Thanks for that Colin

Here are a couple more of the Street Lighting, this time from Tangmere - aparently the only one left there now.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUSSEX/Tangmere/20090115Tangmere163-1.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUSSEX/Tangmere/20090115Tangmere164-1.jpg

I assume that 'Street Light' is the official name and not just what it is referred to as?

P Bellamy
31-01-2009, 17:35
At the risk of out-nerding even myself...

REF's photo's seem to show Concrete Utilities Ltd "Avenue 2D" columns with slightly damaged "Arc 2" brackets (introduced in 1941).
I'll have to check my references later to confim.

All the best,
PB

olympusman
13-02-2009, 08:40
Does somedy have a plan of an approach set up... ?
number of spots, distances, etc...

Ant1981
23-02-2009, 19:02
Does somedy have a plan of an approach set up... ?
number of spots, distances, etc...

I've got some information of a modern military CL5B which I can get for you.

sailormoon_01_uk
03-03-2009, 11:12
Hi Ant

that's the Problem with older Thorn Inset Airfield Lights, they all look the same and the light optics are Interchangable to ease Maintenance and to for the electricians to repair the lights as quick as possible to minimise delays in Take-off's and Landings

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
03-03-2009, 11:26
Hi Guys

I won this Alstom ZA163 Elevated Runway Edge Light on E-bay see Item No 270348000115 (http://http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270348000115),

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Alstom-ZA163-Elevated-Runway-Edge-Light.jpg

the Light looks Brand New and came complete with a 6.6a (about 22 volts) 150w Halogen Airfield Lamp, This Light is a High Intenitybi-directional (with omni-directional component), elevated runway edge light for use in all weather operations up to ICAO Category III systems.

All the Best

Colin

olympusman
03-03-2009, 11:55
Sailormoon,

I looked on e-bay on different keywords but the results were meagre... under which keywords did you search

Ant1981
03-03-2009, 19:01
Hi Ant

that's the Problem with older Thorn Inset Airfield Lights, they all look the same and the light optics are Interchangable to ease Maintenance and to for the electricians to repair the lights as quick as possible to minimise delays in Take-off's and Landings

All the Best

Colin

The inset taxiway lighting is far more inset than threshold and end bar lighting and not all look the same.

Minimising take off and landing delays has absolutely nothing to do with it as no one shall be holding up aircraft what so ever. You'd get into serious trouble for doing so. Maintenance is arranged around the flying program and in particular at places such as Heathrow, no one touches it until 11pm. I can tell you now from experience particularly in the military that air traffic control and Ops couldn't care less about what maintenance you have to perform on lighting and circuitry, they do not want to see you in the way.

It's down to the maintenance team to make sure they have the correct fittings ready to change over (one prepared in the workshop), no bodge jobs and to liaise with air traffic control over access to runways and taxiways. Elevated fittings may be worked on in situ as they are far easier and have less components to work on, but again without infringing aircraft movements.

binbrook74
15-03-2009, 10:27
Well finally got round to putting some pictures i took of inside Binbrooks b center a while ago.
These show the condition the places get left in and what happens when left to the vandals.

Inside of d9a control unit

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0985.jpg

Airfield Lighting Regulator made by parmeko

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0980.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0979.jpg

Various other control panels.
If you could identify ant it would be greatly appreciated

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0989.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0973.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0976.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0974.jpg

binbrook74
15-03-2009, 10:29
Sorry about the small images shall try and upload them larger when i get chance

Jim C
15-03-2009, 13:08
I found this battered piece of equipment near the end of a runway at Hunsdon. It's about six inches long and has a 'Raydyot' stamp on the back...could it possibly be from an approach light? I'm guessing they were basically light fittings mounted on poles that were shaded on one side.

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv69/Jimbo-61/IMG_0037.jpg

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv69/Jimbo-61/IMG_0036.jpg

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv69/Jimbo-61/IMG_0035.jpg

canberra
15-03-2009, 13:54
I wonder if it came from a house destroyed in the blitz? A lot of the hardcore used on the airfileds built during wwii came from buildings destroyed in the blitz.

PNK
15-03-2009, 16:48
Or maybe a vehicle light or shroud?

Jim C
16-03-2009, 22:43
Does anyone on the forum have any photos of WW2 airfield approach lights? :idea: Would like to see them if they have.

Carnaby
17-03-2009, 07:34
Does anyone on the forum have any photos of WW2 airfield approach lights?
There were generally four types of approach lights used during WWII.

1) Contact Lighting Approach Floodlights consisted of four or five large 1 kW fittings - similar to the devices used to illuminate public buildings / churches etc at night. They were designated 'A1s'
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/img029.jpg

2) Drem Mk.II Outer Circle and Approach Funnels used 'A3' pole mounted lamps. On top of the pole was a device like a metal casserole dish with a glass lid, 12" diameter and containing 2 off 60 watt lamps. With around 120-130 per airfield, I've been trying to find one for decades!

3) Drem Mk.II Sodium Approach used later and post WWII on many stations. Designated 'A4', I believe they were similar in appearance to the A1 above but smaller - using a 140 watt tubular lamp.

4) Totem poles - Each runway threshold / airfield boundary was marked by a pair of these, set 150' apart - a minimum of 10' in height (max 50'), and carrying two sets of six screened 15 watt(?) pygmy lamps. These were precisely angled such that one set faced an oncoming aircraft and could only be seen when on a correct approach. At the far end the other set could only be seen by an aircraft taking off. Some poles could be lowered during daylight hours. Fixed poles carried a yellow 'X' marker as shown.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/img028.jpg
Now then guys - which airfield is this? :lol:
(I haven't the faintest!)

Graham

olympusman
17-03-2009, 20:09
Graham,

Are totem poles still used on RAF airfields ?

Seems to me I've recently seem something similar on a Belgian Air Force field ?
A cone on a pylon !

kebecker
17-03-2009, 20:11
I may just have posted one of these on RAF North Witham!, I need to look at the site plan again to see if the position is correct

PNK
17-03-2009, 20:27
Re: North Witham pics : Yes, I thought that but doubted it too much to post. The "X" looks to be corrugated iron and and no sign of paint but then agian paint doesn't stick too well to galvanised metal when new. The bottoms of the "X" could easily have rusted away due to the nail holes.
The location has to be the deciding factor though. Would it be unique if it was?

kebecker
17-03-2009, 20:31
I think you can see yellow or red paint, but am sure I remember a cross, should have got on my hands and knees!

went back and grovelled around and found another bit!http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n330/kebecker2/IMG_0527.jpg

couldnt quite get it to assume the position it was in before it dropped off!

Carnaby
17-03-2009, 23:08
Are totem poles still used on RAF airfields ?
No. They originally served as an 'alignment aid' to landing and taking off - necessary when the flarepath used very low power lights I guess. With modern lighting everything is so bright and no guesswork should be necessary.

I note that the Naval Air Traffic Control Regulations - BR1899 (1957) stated that Totems were only now found at airfields with undulating runways. I thought they had disappeared from use long before that.

The pole height was 10 foot on a very 'flat' runway. RAF Wing had a big bump in the middle and 40' poles were needed so that the pilot could always see the lamps.

Incidentally I suspect the reason outer circle lighting has been impossible to find for decades, is that they were all dismantled post haste after WWII as the Air Ministry was spending an annual fortune on wayleave to farmers who were losing valuable land due to the myriad of poles dotted all over the countryside. Not just those carrying lights, but all the cable support poles in between the airfield and the lights themselves.

Honiley Approach Funnels

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/Honiley3-1.jpg
Above is the approach wiring routing for just one of the six runways. Each Blue dot is an A3 Light on a pole (12 total per approach)
Red dots are wiring support poles. Yellow dots are supports with a stay, used where the wiring changes direction. They landowner got more compensation for them! Note that underground wiring was only used from the airfield to the Inner Funnel. There were five more of these, plus the 12 miles of outer circle lighting with a support every 50 yards. Lots and lots of poles (720 average per airfield). There must be one somewhere! :wink:

Graham

olympusman
18-03-2009, 17:51
Graham,

Thanks for explanation

The wiring diagram is also very interesting

canberra
18-03-2009, 19:37
Marham has a very big bump in its runway!

kebecker
18-03-2009, 20:45
At North Witham there is a pair of angle irons set into a lump of concrete, that looks like it has been dug out of an outlying field, I have a pic somewhere, its from the general area the post I depicted is so this tends to lend itself to the wayleave payments arguement (wrong choice of word!! not suggesting anything of the sort). This also presupposes that the pole at North Witham is ealted to airfield lighting.

I am assuming there are plans showing these lighting poles somewhere?

historymadd
18-03-2009, 21:13
Well finally got round to putting some pictures i took of inside Binbrooks b center a while ago.
These show the condition the places get left in and what happens when left to the vandals.

Inside of d9a control unit

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0985.jpg

Airfield Lighting Regulator made by parmeko

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0980.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0979.jpg

Various other control panels.
If you could identify ant it would be greatly appreciated

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0989.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0973.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0976.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0974.jpg


hi there

based upon my limited airfield knowledge the airfield lighting regulators are correct but the types of cabinets and transformers where interconnecting units between the A center usually located in the air traffic control tower or near by for both control from the A and B centers

Rotary switch positions usually dictate the levels of brilliancy for each set of lights usually 20,40,60,80,100% i may be corrected !!!!! come on antc1981 lol

other cabinets controls for trffic lights across taxiways and in some case RHAG control gear

hope this is helpfull


cheers

sailormoon_01_uk
19-03-2009, 09:07
Does anyone on the forum have any photos of WW2 airfield approach lights? :idea: Would like to see them if they have.

Yep I have three which used early Series burning Lamps see

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Benjamin%20WW2%20RAF%20Airfield%20Approach%20Light .jpg,
Benjamin World War II RAF Airfield Runway Approach Light for a P28s Filament Airfield Lamp and

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/RAF%20Tangmere%20Approach%20Lights.jpg
Benjamin World War II RAF Airfield Runway Approach Lights from RAF Tangmere for a P28s Filament Airfield Lamp.

I even have a couple of lamps too see
http://airport-lamps.webs.com/Atlas-6.6a-200w-Airfield-Runway-Lamp.jpg
1940s Atlas EL-55 6.6a (30v) 200w Airfield/Runway lamp,

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/Atlas-Logo-02.jpg
although hard to see the markings it says Property of H.M. Government, Made in Gt Britain 6C ATLAS 6.6A 200W Airfield Landing Light

Date Code Decifered as June 1943

All the best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
19-03-2009, 09:24
Sailormoon,

I looked on e-bay on different keywords but the results were meagre... under which keywords did you search

I search under Airport Light, Runway Light , Airfield Light I even do a International Search which includes US Listings

for this Light listed on E-bay see Runway Edge Light (http://http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270348000115) Item No 270348000115 (http://http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270348000115)

I have Made a stand from a metal table leg and connected it to a 12v 100w Transformer see
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Alstom-ZA163-Lit.jpg
and changed the lamp from a J1/83 6.6a 150w Airfield Lamp (which run at about 22 volts) to a J1/80 6.6a 100w Airfield Lamp (as they run at about 15 Volts). see

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/HLX64342.jpg

All the Best

Colin

Carnaby
19-03-2009, 13:12
Benjamin World War II RAF Airfield Runway Approach Light for a P28s Filament Airfield Lamp and
Benjamin World War II RAF Airfield Runway Approach Lights from RAF Tangmere for a P28s Filament Airfield Lamp. Colin
Were these fittings used during WWII Colin? I suspect they may be the LA/12 and LR/15 units which I believe were not used until the fifties. They appear on AM drawing M&E WA15/53/54.
My notes on Tangmere state Standard Drem MkII, plus Contact Lighting in December 1944.

I'm surprised you missed this WWII unit (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=150330492503). I bought it and will puts details on the forum when I collect it. Its a USAAF WWII HILV runway lamp, the approach fittings were identical, except that they were pole mounted. The only other example I've seen was at the Woodhall Spa Museum. There is a link here (http://airfieldinformationexchange.freeforums.org/raf-martlesham-heath-t358-15.html). Scroll well down.

Graham

sailormoon_01_uk
19-03-2009, 15:26
HI Graham

I was told these Lights were World War II the single one I have No Idea which Airfield Light it was used on as it was never used, on the Side it has AMWD (Air Ministry War Department) second Lights came off E-bay a few years ago where the seller did state they came from RAF Tangmere.

Do you have AM drawing M&E WA15/53/54 and details on the LA/12 and LR/15 Lights

Re the Runway Light Yep I did see it listed on E-bay but as I don't Drive or have no access to a vehicle/Driver and I couldnt get to Chesterfield Derbyshire I didn't buy it

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
19-03-2009, 15:54
I Was Given this Light by a fellow Collector/Electrician I have Identified it as a Airport Obstruction Light (the Red Light you see on structures to warn aircraft of a Obstacle or Obstruction).

I have no idea who made it or how old it is all I know is it uses a standard light bulb with screw cap,

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Unknown-Obstruction-Light.jpg http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/OL4.jpg

All the Best

Colin

Richard Flagg
19-03-2009, 20:57
Obstruction light on the old tower (now demolished) at Lakenheath

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Lakenheath/20090227RAFLakenheath90-1.jpg
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Lakenheath/20090227RAFLakenheath88-1.jpg

Carnaby
20-03-2009, 18:10
I am assuming there are plans showing these lighting poles somewhere?
I've never seen one. Interestingly Honiley appears to be the only airfield documented in TNA regarding the precise layout of its Funnels and the breakdown of compensation to landowners. The Outer Circle arrangement is not included in the file. Where did all this documentation go to after WWII? Stupid question I guess :wink:

AIR 2/11930 AERODROMES (Code B, 3): RAF Honiley: permanent airfield lighting, 1950-1959 An excellent example of a mistitled document since it refers to WWII lighting and not to the proposed updated systems used postwar.

Graham

mawganmad
20-03-2009, 19:06
Talking of obstruction lights, I will give a quick and basic guide to them, this is assuming best practice from the JSP (UK military airfield guide)

These lights are fitted to high buildings/structures which could constitute an obstruction to flying. They are called Airfield Obstruction Lighting (AOL) and consist of a red light fitting attached to a high point of the structure, this should be the nearest, and highest, part to the airfield if possible.
ie a square, flat topped, structure such as a 'C' hangar has the light on the top of the corner nearest the airfield, a pitch roof structure like a T.2 hangar has the light fitted to the highest part of the peek, again the one nearest the airfield.
To further complicate things there is also a regulation governing the how many lights are used for the given size of a building and its proximity to the runway, therefore some hangars have two lights, in the case of say a C type, one at each end, but only on the side nearest the runway, pitch roof will be one at each gable.
Some buildings and structures require the light to be fitted to a long pole to lift it clear of surrounding objects. A good example is control towers, where there are arials etc fitted to the roof.
Brilliancy should also be slightly different, dependant on distance from runway. All the lights should have two bulb fittings, just in case one bulb blows, allowing the other one to carry on. The bulbs, fairly obviously, should idealy be changed at different times.
The lights are switched on and off using the AOL button from the lighting panel in the VCR of the control tower, obviously for night time and fog, but also in haze.

Here at SA they have been on for the past four sunny days due to the haze. Also the lighting here does follow all the above guuidelines

Hello, hello, ah you've all gone to sleep!

canberra
20-03-2009, 19:11
Ive never known the bulbs to blow on the red lights on airfield obstructions.

mawganmad
20-03-2009, 19:14
Like all bulbs they do blow, and they should be changed at the earliest.
That shows how effective the two bulb system is, in that you haven't known a light to go out.

Carnaby
20-03-2009, 23:33
Talking of obstruction lights...
All the lights should have two bulb fittings...
Hello, hello, ah you've all gone to sleep!
No very interesting Mawganmad. :D
Wartime units were of two types:
1) a three lamp unit - all powered, and
2) a twin lamp device in which only one lamp was powered. IIRC the unit switched automatically to the spare if the primary failed though how it did this given the technology at the time escapes me. Perhaps I dreamt it :roll:

Graham

binbrook74
24-03-2009, 09:17
All 'A Centres' are at the base of the tower and that is where all the cables from the VCR lighting desk terminated into the 'A Centre' MCS rack.

The 'A Centre' MCS is connected by the airfield ring cable into the 'B Centre' MCS. There are usually two 'B Centres' per runway. The usual location is 500ft or so from the threshold, to the side. The 'B Centre' is where you'll find CCRs, where airfield lighting is terminated and powered from. Also threshold traffic lights and other services get their power from there, such as RHAGs and NET barriers, or even a glidepath or localiser if not powered from a substation feeder pillar.

Typical B Centre MCS rack, with D22 to the left that controls taxiway lights and often a provision for traffic light black out.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/RAFBensonB1B-17-01-2007-0002.jpg

A tiny 'B Centre' with CCRs and the smaller units are TMS-E's used for taxiways. Note one with a unit on top as I were working on it at the time.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1B-13-12-2007_0009.jpg

Another shot of the 'B Centre' MCS, also top right is a D20 which replaced the D9's. Far left, MCS battery charger and batteries to the right.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1B-13-12-2007_0015.jpg

A larger 'B Centre' with CCRs. In the background are the cable termination panels with a digital current read out.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1ACCRs-13-02-2008_0137.jpg


I think that this unit unit i photographed at binbrook must be the remains of the mcs as you are referring to as the boards which i found laying around were marked department of the enviroment and then had mcs/rg on them.
As you can see the unit is quite stripped but i found quite a lot of the boards underneath the floor covered in rubbish .
The unit itself has been left open to the elements as you can see and is quite dirty inside mainly from the birds which get insode the building.
This one was seen in the b1b centre.
i can only gather the one in the b1a center must be in better condition as in on the remote end of the airfield so should be fairly untouched.
Why people have to go inside these building s to strip them and throw the parts around is beyond me.
Cant see the sense in it personally.
Ant1981 do you have any pictures of inside one of these units ior any wiring diagrams /manuals etc or know the where abouts where i might be able to obtain these from as obv doe /psa services was disbanded several years ago.
Thanks
Binbrook74

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0992.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF1088.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF1092.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF1089.jpg

sailormoon_01_uk
28-03-2009, 17:08
Hi All

I noticed Older Lights in the Photos above are a Single fitting which they look like Compact Fluorescent Lamps fitted, I also notced they look like they can hold two or three lamps in the same fitting, does anyone know the make of these Lights

I noticed Modern Lights are a Single Lamp unit or a Dual Light unit (one light with two globes or two lights mounted on a T shape Conduit) anyway re the latter I bought one on the US E-bay for $40 USD as Buy it Now (normally they reach $100 plus as US Collectors seem to bid on them), anyway I am just waiting Delivery of the Dual Obstruction Light from the USA, I paid about 65 inclusing Postage via Priority Air Mail it takes about 10 days delivery, anyway for the listing see Item No 170313431822 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=170313431822).

According to the USPS or United States Postal Service it has left the USA, I should recieve it next week.

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
28-03-2009, 17:29
Like all bulbs they do blow, and they should be changed at the earliest.
That shows how effective the two bulb system is, in that you haven't known a light to go out.

Also most modern Obstruction Lights have a Failure Alarm to warn of the lamp failure, thus they get repaired as soon as possible, also the filament lamp versions are slightly under run to extend the life of the bulb as long as 4000 hours plus (about a year when lit at dust to dawn) or they use extended Life bulbs some US lamps used in Obstruction Lights have 8000 hours life(about2 years when lit at dust to dawn) I also know there are Super life lamps which last 16000 hours but they run at reduced light output compared to a household bulb which lasts 1000 hours

For Details of see FAA Advisory Circular = SPECIFICATION FOR OBSTRUCTION LIGHTING EQUIPMENT (http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/airports/resources/advisory_circulars/media/150-5345-43f/150_5345_43f.pdf) and FAA Advisory Circular = Obstruction Marking and Lighting (http://www.wirelessestimator.com/publicdocs/AC%2070%207460-1K.pdf)

All the Best

Colin

mawganmad
28-03-2009, 17:56
I know here there are a mixture of fittings and manufacturers, the spec and regs seem to be the important factor.
Most are single fitting with two filaments, but the transmitter tower has two fittings mounted together, same fashion as you mention above. I've not heard of failure alarms here, thought any failures were picked up on daily inspections and the like. I could be wrong and I will find out for you.

sailormoon_01_uk
28-03-2009, 18:06
Hi

I shall look at the CAA Specs as most Data I have are American, I even have couple of American 120v 620w Obstuction Light Bulbs where on the UK we us NEON or Xenon Strobe Tubes

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/120v-620w-Airport-Beacon-Lamp.jpg
US GE 120v 620w Airport Beacon/Obstruction Lamp

All the Best

Colin

mawganmad
28-03-2009, 18:17
Definately no failure alarms for AOL just Mk.1 eyeball, don't forget I'm talking about MoD kit here, can't talk for CAA and FAA gear.

sailormoon_01_uk
28-03-2009, 18:33
Hi

I see, I dont know if the Military Airfields in the UK I in curious on what lamp would be used in the Coded Beacons they are red lights which flash the Identity of the Airfield in More Code example RAF Valley has one which Flashes Red VY (Victor Yankey)

they look like this one
http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10024/Obstruction-Light-No-More.JPG

This is a 300mm Medium Intensity Obstruction/Coded Beacon Light Photographed on the roof of the World Trade Centre NY, before the 9/11 attacks, the Lamps used as shown in previous message

All the Best

Colin

mawganmad
28-03-2009, 18:44
Yes the station ID beacons are very interesting, I'm sure there is a proper name for them (pundits?). They flash the airfield two letter ID in morse.
I have never seen anything like the one in that picture though, the ones I have seen are much larger and look like a reverse cone with flat panes and what look like flourescent lighting tubes inside. They have to be visible from directly above. Will try and post pic sometime.

canberra
28-03-2009, 19:04
The pundit beacons were done away with in the early eighties, Marham got the first of the new beacons whilst I was there.

sailormoon_01_uk
28-03-2009, 19:18
Another type of Airport Beacon in the USA once Used 2 Bi-Post lamps 500w or 1000w for Civil Airports and 1200w for Military Airbases

http://www.butlercounty.biz/images/Airports/Hook/HookFieldAirportBeacon1.jpg

This Beacon is at Hook Field Airport, Middletown Ohiop USA.

Here are some Typical Airport Beacon Lamps form thw 1940's to 1960's

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/AWB-Lamp-2.jpg

This lamp is a 1960's GE 120v 500w Airport Beacon Lamp

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/GE-Mazda-Airway-Beacon-Lamp-1.jpg

This lamp is a 1940's GE Mazda 120v 1000w Airport Beacon Lamp

http://airport-lamps.webs.com/USAF-115v-1200w-Airway-Beacon-Lamp.jpg

This lamp is a 1960's GE 120v 1200w Military Airport Beacon Lamp

This Lamp is used on USAF and US Naval Airbases, this lamp also has a Military Stock Numbers MS-25015-2 L7158 and 6240-00-556-8012

This Lamp came from Fairchild Airforce Base, Spokane, Washington, USA, which was highlighted in a featured in the 1990 Nuclear War film By Dawn's Early Light as the home base of a B-52G Nuclear bomber crew.

Today Airport Beacons now use 175 watt and 400 watt Metal Halide Bulbs or 500 watt and 1000 watt PAR64 Sealed Beam Lamps

All the Best

Colin

canberra
28-03-2009, 19:53
As well as being the first station to get the new style beacons Marham was the first unit to get the new airfield lighting panels. I say new but of course this was 30 years ago! Anyway one night whilst night flying was in progress one bloke I wont name him(Mal Hurrell) asked what the button marked ABO did. He was immediatley told not to touch it, too late! ABO stood for airfield black out, and it did exactly what it said it did.

I wont go in to the full story but a few weeks later the whole station went on to standby power for the best part of a month, and that meant we had to use glim lamps for runway lighting and we had sodium approach lighting.

sailormoon_01_uk
30-03-2009, 18:57
I bet the S*** hit the fan when he blacked out the airfield, especially with night operations going on, I guess ABO's were adopted for wartime use to instantly extinguish the lights when enemy aircarft was approaching

All the Best

Colin

canberra
30-03-2009, 18:59
Yes it did it the fan!

mawganmad
30-03-2009, 20:42
I guess ABO's were adopted for wartime use to instantly extinguish the lights when enemy aircarft was approaching

They are still very much in use, and on some stations also knocks out some domestic lighting (such as street lighting). Probably for same reason as WWII, ie conventional attack, but are sometimes used during NVG operations.

sailormoon_01_uk
30-03-2009, 20:49
Yep I recall the same used on Ports/Docks when the Air Raid Warning was given the Black out switch was triggered and all flood lights were extingushed,

Re Modern Blackout Requirements I guess they became useless with Nuclear Weapons and Missiles especially with Cold War Bases.

All the Best

Colin

mawganmad
30-03-2009, 21:04
There was always the threat of conventional attack from the Warsaw Pact aswel. Everything went very tactical in the mid '70s.

sailormoon_01_uk
02-04-2009, 21:07
Interesting I always thought NATO Airbases would be attacked with Nuclear weapons in the Kiloton yeald a good example is in the BBC Film Threads where RAF Finningley was hit by a 150 Kt Nuclear Bomb followed by Sheffield itself by a 1Mt (1 Megaton) Bomb.

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
04-04-2009, 10:44
HI All

I recieved the Dual Airport Obstruction Light from the USA, it is made by Crouse & Hinds type EOL 50021/116, and uses 2 x 120 volt 116 watt American Traffic Signal Lamps (Suppled) as they have a 8000 hour Life (8 x the life of a standaard Filament Lamp), when cleaned up and wired I shall be using 240vEnergy Saving Lamps.

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Crouse+Hinds-EOL-Dual-Airport-Obstruction-Light.jpg

All the Best

Colin

Ant1981
18-04-2009, 18:27
All 'A Centres' are at the base of the tower and that is where all the cables from the VCR lighting desk terminated into the 'A Centre' MCS rack.

The 'A Centre' MCS is connected by the airfield ring cable into the 'B Centre' MCS. There are usually two 'B Centres' per runway. The usual location is 500ft or so from the threshold, to the side. The 'B Centre' is where you'll find CCRs, where airfield lighting is terminated and powered from. Also threshold traffic lights and other services get their power from there, such as RHAGs and NET barriers, or even a glidepath or localiser if not powered from a substation feeder pillar.

Typical B Centre MCS rack, with D22 to the left that controls taxiway lights and often a provision for traffic light black out.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/RAFBensonB1B-17-01-2007-0002.jpg

A tiny 'B Centre' with CCRs and the smaller units are TMS-E's used for taxiways. Note one with a unit on top as I were working on it at the time.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1B-13-12-2007_0009.jpg

Another shot of the 'B Centre' MCS, also top right is a D20 which replaced the D9's. Far left, MCS battery charger and batteries to the right.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1B-13-12-2007_0015.jpg

A larger 'B Centre' with CCRs. In the background are the cable termination panels with a digital current read out.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/ant1981/B1ACCRs-13-02-2008_0137.jpg


I think that this unit unit i photographed at binbrook must be the remains of the mcs as you are referring to as the boards which i found laying around were marked department of the enviroment and then had mcs/rg on them.
As you can see the unit is quite stripped but i found quite a lot of the boards underneath the floor covered in rubbish .
The unit itself has been left open to the elements as you can see and is quite dirty inside mainly from the birds which get insode the building.
This one was seen in the b1b centre.
i can only gather the one in the b1a center must be in better condition as in on the remote end of the airfield so should be fairly untouched.
Why people have to go inside these building s to strip them and throw the parts around is beyond me.
Cant see the sense in it personally.
Ant1981 do you have any pictures of inside one of these units ior any wiring diagrams /manuals etc or know the where abouts where i might be able to obtain these from as obv doe /psa services was disbanded several years ago.
Thanks
Binbrook74

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0992.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF1088.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF1092.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF1089.jpg

The old MCS parts are usually stripped down the by same DE contractor who looks after other airfields, DE themselves or even ATG.

I've got mountains of MCS wiring diagrams on paper and I may have a photo of the back open up. If not, then I'll take one next time.

Most of the people I have worked with on airfields are from the old DOE/PSA days, alot of them have transferred over and then of course there are alot of new comers working for the current contractors.

Ant1981
18-04-2009, 18:29
Well finally got round to putting some pictures i took of inside Binbrooks b center a while ago.
These show the condition the places get left in and what happens when left to the vandals.

Inside of d9a control unit

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0985.jpg

Airfield Lighting Regulator made by parmeko

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0980.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0979.jpg

Various other control panels.
If you could identify ant it would be greatly appreciated

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0989.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0973.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0976.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/DSCF0974.jpg

Indeed at the top a D9, the next two are SCR's, then two photos of a '10 C' rack and then finally 'cable termination panels' with ammeter for viewing the series circuit current.

P Bellamy
19-05-2009, 21:27
Here's some bits and bobs from wartime USAAF photos, which may be lighting related.
If anyone can ID the unknowns I'd appreciate it.

HILV lamps at Ridgewell:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Image9-4.jpg

Unknown out-of-focus something at Bassingbourn, maybe lighting related:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Image6-2.jpg

Gooseneck Flare and other bits at Deenethorpe:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Image8-2.jpg

Something else beside the runway at Deenethorpe:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Image3-2.jpg

And some interesting dots on a 1944 aerial photo of Deenethorpe:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Image10-1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Image11.jpg

They are alongside all three runways, roughly 15' out from the edge, at 300' intervals.
Possible HILV installation?

One last thing, could anyone confirm the distance between the end of the runway and the crossbar on the Drem MkII system, as the quoted 800 yards would put it exactly halfway along a standard 6000' main runway on a Class A airfield.

All the best,
PB

sailormoon_01_uk
19-05-2009, 21:41
Photo No 2 is a Sodium Approach/Runway light

Photo No 4 is a Glide Path Indicator

All the Best

Colin

Carnaby
20-05-2009, 11:12
One last thing, could anyone confirm the distance between the end of the runway and the crossbar on the Drem MkII system, as the quoted 800 yards would put it exactly halfway along a standard 6000' main runway on a Class A airfield.
Errr - maths Paul :lol: half way down a 2,000 yard is at 1,000, not 800. Crossbars had to be at 800 as it was considered to be the last point at which a pilot could land safely on the remaining runway. Hence the Navy called their version 'Open-up and go round again' lights.

Picture 1 is superb - one of the few shots I've seen showing HILV. There is so little info on this system. It was 100% essential that the HILV units were exactly opposite each other on a runway. Any slight skew would confuse the pilot.

Picture 2 I believe also has an RAE Low Intensity Flare (aka Glim Lamp) next to the gooseneck. Glims were battery powered.

Photo 4 isn't a GPI, it's a mobile 2-strip Sodium (see Freeman, RA, The RAF of WWII in Colour, page 97)

The Deenethorpe shots are fascinating. I'm fairly certain that HILV was only fitted on the main runway - it was a very expensive system. Deenethorpe didn't have Contact Lighting (also main runway only). The longitudinal spacing, plus 'all three runways' suggests therefore has to be Drem MkII, but they seem to be spaced too far from the runway edge. Hmm?

Some extremely interesting stuff Paul, more more!

Graham

P Bellamy
20-05-2009, 19:05
Sorry Graham, brain wasn't working 100% yesterday....
I meant to say 800yds/2400' is almost halfway along a 6000' main Class A runway. :wink:

I went out to Deenethorpe today to see if I could find any traces of whatever lighting systems were fitted there.
(The following pictures will also be put in the Deenethorpe thread shortly)

The perimeter track has been reduced by half it's width, leaving the outer edge all the way around, most places still have the drainage gully and drains alongside. This obviously means at least half of any taxiway lights have been destroyed.
I walked almost all the perimeter, rain stopped play for the last third when I took a short cut along Runway No3. :)

The results can be split into two classes, the wartime installation and the 1960s-70s British Steel installation.

WWII: Drem Mk2
T1 Taxiway lighting along the perimeter track at roughly 150' intervals (would probably be spot-on 150' intervals relative to the taxiway centreline).

Empty socket in the outer edge of the track, with the gully and drains outside:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/T1-4.jpg

Complete but broken fitting:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/T1-3.jpg

Intact fitting:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/T1-2.jpg

Remains inside a smashed fitting. Bulb intact, but orange filter and clear outer dome broken:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/T1-1.jpg

Bulb after cleaning:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/T1-6.jpg

Bulb, orange filter fragment after cleaning. Broken-off dome from another fitting :

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/T1-5.jpg

C6 Runway Lighting remains along runway no.3, at 300' intervals.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/C6-1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/C6-2.jpg

British Steel use:

North end of runway, six fittings, each with an adjacent inspection pit, at 20' intervals across runway.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/BSC1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/BSC3.jpg

South end, same again, barrier fence and poles removed:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/BSC2.jpg

Control units:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/BSC4.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Deenethorpe%202009/BSC5.jpg

So, seeing as the C6 lamps are set into the runway edge, whatever is set away from the edges in the wartime air photo's can't also be Drem Mk2 surely?

More to come when I visit again, the main runway was active today so I kept clear.

All the best,
PB

Jim C
20-05-2009, 19:55
This is a restored perimeter track light I rescued from Hunsdon many years ago (with permission of course :wink: ) .I noticed there were traces of yellow paint on the housing after cleaning it up,so decided to paint it with a similar yellow.Anyone know if they were originally that colour? Doesn't seem camouflage friendly to me.
The original bulb still worked after 45 years underground,but unfortunately didn't last too long after that .
We used the concrete housing for one corner of the base surround of the Hunsdon memorial,using another dome.

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv69/Jimbo-61/perilight.jpg

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv69/Jimbo-61/IMG_0189.jpg

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv69/Jimbo-61/IMG_0194.jpg

sailormoon_01_uk
20-05-2009, 20:05
Interesting seeing the bulb from the Drem Fitting as it's still made today, they are called Pygmy Lamps, and are available from your local B&Q, at least if you save a fitting you can pick the bulbs up anywhere.

I like the restored Light, Made by REVO Tipton West Midlands, from the 1920's to 1960's they did a wide selection of electrical Equipment, and Lighting but most post war lighting Products were aimed for the Commercial, Industrial, Floodlighting, and Street Lighting, etc by the 1970's they changed the name to Relite, then Simplex Lighting by 1980s, until the 1990's which the company was sold to Industria Lighting Holland and now they are called WRTL Whitecroft Road and Tunnel Lighting, today they supply Street lighting products.

Jim yep Airfield Lights are Aviation Yellow, it's from the 1970's onwards they were specified with NATO Green Colour painted housing.

All the Best

Colin

P Bellamy
28-05-2009, 01:10
Can we work out a definitive list of what colour bulb/filter was used where in the Drem MkII system?

I'm informed that taxiway lighting was blue, but have found a couple more examples of orange filters at Deenethorpe.
Were these dispersal intersection markers?

I also found a reference to the Outer Circle lamps being pink.

So what colour should the various lamps be, and is there a simple diagram of what lamps went where?

All the best,
PB

Carnaby
28-05-2009, 15:45
Can we work out a definitive list of what colour bulb/filter was used where in the Drem MkII system?
I also found a reference to the Outer Circle lamps being pink.PB
AFAIK everything was unscreened 'white' except:

800 yard crossbars: blue.
Taxi-track: outside edge - amber, inside edge - blue. Dispersal lanes: blue.
The two AAIs were adjusted accordingly: amber/amber (much too high), amber/green (too high), green/green (OK), green/red (too low), red/red (much too low).
Illuminated Control Tower sign (Drem Mk.III): blue.

I believe the Pink Outer Circle story to be a 'White Elephant' ::oops:
Graham

P Bellamy
29-05-2009, 16:18
Thanks for that Graham.

I'm off to see if I can find any more fittings over the weekend.
I can get some better photos of the Thorn Lighting gubbins for you if you'd like, there's what looks like a radio beacon in there too.

All the best,
PB

sailormoon_01_uk
28-06-2009, 10:01
I like the Thank Richard who informed me of a collector who has some Airfield lights for sale, Unfutunaely I am unable to pick up anything but all was not lost, as they had a Dual lamp Obstruction Light which was easy to post in the mail,

The light itself is a old American Crouse & Hinds EOL4450 Elevated Obstruction Light from the 1980s or earlier the Light is designed for the lighting of television, radio, communications, microwave towers and transmission line or Electricity Pylons near Airports, and other obstructions to aircraft navigation as specified by Air Traffic Authorities. They are also used ito light Windcones, Apron Floodlights and other Elevated Airport Obstructions.

All theBest

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
08-07-2009, 09:24
A fellow Collector of Street Lighting Euquipment in Eastbourne, Found this Light in a car boot sale for only 4.00 he kindly bought it and post it in the mail,

The light itself is a GEC ZA743 single lamp Obstruction Light from 1990, the Light is designed for the lighting of television, radio, communications, microwave towers and transmission line or Electricity Pylons near Airports, and other obstructions to aircraft navigation as specified by Air Traffic Authorities. They are also used ito light Windcones, Apron Floodlights and other Elevated Airport Obstructions.

Also on the side of the light is a damaged sticker with a NATO Serial Number NSN-6210-99-640-8200

All the Best

Colin

listopad
19-07-2009, 22:05
Don't know if this is of any interest. Airfield light at RAF Fairford, 18 Jul 09.
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr1/listopad_2008/LightatFairfordJul09.jpg

Carnaby
19-07-2009, 22:26
Don't know if this is of any interest.
Lighting is always of interest, Listopad, :wink: even if it's a common T2 taxi-track fitting. GEC I guess.
Graham

Richard Flagg
19-07-2009, 23:04
Don't know if this is of any interest.
Lighting is always of interest, Listopad, :wink: even if it's a common T2 taxi-track fitting. GEC I guess.
Graham

It looks like a blue light to me....

sailormoon_01_uk
20-07-2009, 07:41
Yep a Alstom ZA202 Taxiway Edge Light, I have one exactly the same plus some GEC and a CEGELEC Model see

http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/ZA202.jpg
Alstom ZA202 in NATO Green Body
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/CEGELEC-ZA202-Taxiway-Edge-Light.jpg
CEGELEC (Former GEC) ZA202 in Aviation Yellow Body
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA202-Airport-Light-a.jpg
GEC ZA202 in Aviation Yellow Body
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA202-Airport-lights.jpg
GEC ZA202's in Aviation Yellow Body Unrestored and Restored
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA202-Airport-Light-1.jpg
GEC ZA202 used at Birminghan International Airport UK

Alstom is part of the French Company, who took over GEC back in the 1990's, including Airfield Ligitng Division, however last year, the Airfield Lighting Division got sold off back to the UK by ATG Airports, see http://www.atgairports.com/

This Light is designed to be used as a Taxiway Edge light where a Elevated Light such as the ZA216 etc, would be damaged with the risk of Collision of Aircraft/Vehicles etc.

All the Best

Colin

Richard Flagg
20-07-2009, 09:35
Is the GEC ZA202 used on both civil and military airfields then?

historymadd
14-08-2009, 22:45
As a taxpayer I like to see I get value for money for my tax pounds, so why are they leaving all the lighting to fester away?? Personally I wouldnt be suprised if someone hasnt already started removing lights and even cabling.

hi there

the simple answer is they just do not know what to do with this stuff ! many towers and assets are withdrawn from assets lists as thay are no longer needed technology has moved on and aircraft can land without lighting in some cases or rjusts uses its guidance software.
times have moved on yet we stilll use outdated airfields nd no one knows what to do with them
ie eco towns and places such as upper heyford are used as car parking ????????????

i read somewhere the typhoon can be anywhere in uk airspace in 8 minutes so do we need so many airfields the simple answer is YES we have not learned anything from world war two we need spare runways when the main one are wiped out ie when the germans bombed london and left the airfieda alone it gave us time to regroup.

all ones eggs in one basket comes to mind


ref cabling 6mm about 5500 feet long not worth digging it all up lol

cheers

will need to survey raf abingdon to see what lighting if any is left lol

binbrook74
14-08-2009, 22:53
Its a shame really as its all still part of the airfield history.
The stuff that was left at binbrook ( In fact what i saw they left everything) was slowly vandalised and still to this day is.
Biggest problem is the scrap men seem too be sneaking on there at night and ripping anythin metal out.
They have even gone to the point of smashing sub mains transformers to pieces ,Pouring the oil out and then taking the transformers.
Most of the airfield lights especially the t2 taxi lamps from what i can make out,the rings that hold the globes in are brass.
Scrap mans paradise which is such a shame to watch these items dissapear for good .

binbrook74
18-08-2009, 00:21
Am i right or are the t2 lights made by different suppliers as iv seen some marked gec ,revo and another make on airfields.
I wonder what the price tag of these units were and the exacy date they were first manufactered.

sailormoon_01_uk
29-09-2009, 15:29
Is the GEC ZA202 used on both civil and military airfields then?

Yep they are also sold with a 240v filament bulb for use for Roadway Lighting in Cheshire they are used for lighting road signs and bollards

I recently bought another GEC ZA202 which is painted FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) Red to comply with US Airports see Photo
http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/RAF-Manston-GEC-ZA202-Airport-Light-Restored.jpg

I was told this came from RAF Manston in Kent

All the Best

Colin

sailormoon_01_uk
29-09-2009, 16:11
Hi

I wonder if anyone can help Identify this lamp see photo

http://www.freewebs.com/aircraft-light/GEC%2022v%20350-350w%20Aero%20Landing%20Lamp.jpg

I was told it could be a Landing Light lamp off a Blackburn Bucanner but as I have 14 of them I an not sure, they are 22 volts 350/350 watts, some are in wrappers

for wrapper details see photo

http://www.freewebs.com/aircraft-light/GEC%20Aero%20Landing%20Lamp%20Wrapper-Details.jpg

Any suggestions on Identifying the lamp would be greatful

All the Best

Colin

binbrook74
07-11-2009, 15:26
Some pics of Binbrooks other b center.
As you can see the scrap man has been in and cut the units up into easily moveable sizes.
The room is fairly complete but totally wrecked .
Shame really as these were perfectly preserved with them being in the building in the middle of a field but since the field has been ploughed its contents has suffered.
Taken oct 09

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture225.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture226.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture227.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture223.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture222.jpg

binbrook74
07-11-2009, 15:38
Remains of the mcs in the b center

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture218.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture219.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture220.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/swinnfamily_2008/Picture221.jpg

ianbache
14-01-2010, 22:24
Hi all here are a few shots of some approach and rwy lighting from Llanbedr

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC00401.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC00402.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC00406.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC00408.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC00405.jpg

sailormoon_01_uk
14-01-2010, 23:09
I wish I could have the middle light if Photo No DSC00406.jpg, it's a GEC/Alstom ZA450 Low Intensity Approach/Runway Edge Light, I have a Similar Light with Yellow housing and Red Glass see http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA450-Airport-Light.jpg (http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA450-Airport-Light.jpg) I notied someone has opened the lamp galleys of the High Intensity Lights they are GEC/Alstom ZA415's I have a few of these see http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/GEC-ZA415-2B-RAF-Runway-Light-lit-2.jpg

My only source for Airfield Lighting is from E-bay recently I bought this GEC ZA202 Taxiway/Apron Edge Light back in December see http://approach_light.webs.com/GEC-ZA202-RAF-Airport-Light.jpg (http://approach_light.webs.com/GEC-ZA202-RAF-Airport-Light.jpg) it's the same as in Photo no DSC00408.jpg however over the last 6 years, I have bought and was sent Airfield lights from the UK Europe USA, China and Australia to see my Collection see http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/ (http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/) I have a good selection of Airfield/Runway Lamps from a 1940's GE-Mazda 1M/T20BP-115V 1000W Airway Beacon Lamp from the USA (From Days Before VOR/DME equipment)to a Philips 6313 6.6a 200w Airport/Runway Lamp as used in Todays Approach/Runway Lights.

All the Best

Colin

Ant1981
17-01-2010, 20:03
will need to survey raf abingdon to see what lighting if any is left lol

I can tell you what's left at Abingdon :)

I had some spare time in 2008 and did a brief survey.

ianbache
17-01-2010, 21:20
Here are some more from Llanbedr taken today 17 /01 /10

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC01351.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC01354.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC01366.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC01367.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/DSC01368.jpg

sorry about the quality the sun was in the wrong place

Ant1981
17-01-2010, 21:32
Great photos. Surpised the PAPIs are still there.

sailormoon_01_uk
17-01-2010, 21:54
Cool Photos

I see the Thorn HIA7/1 Approach lights are in Aviation Yellow not NATO Green.

These lights were made around the 1980's before the Thorn EL-ATC lights replaced them by the 1990's, see below


http://www.freewebs.com/approach_light/Thorn-HIA7-1-Approach-Light-1.jpg


1980's Thorn HIA7/1 Approach Light


http://approach_light.webs.com/Thorn-EL-ATC-Elevated-Approach-Light.jpg


Modern Thorn EL-ATC Approach Light


All the Best


Colin

olympusman
17-01-2010, 22:00
Colin,

I never found airfield lighting equipment on e-bay... I do not use the right keywords maybe ?
Would like to find a Bartow...

olympusman
17-01-2010, 22:02
Binbrook,

Sad to see the destroyed equipment/remains you photographed...

sailormoon_01_uk
17-01-2010, 22:24
I look under Airport Light, Runway Light, Landing Light, Taxiway Light, Aircraft Light, Airfield Light, and you find lights I have noticed most are listed on the US E-bay there ia quite a few Inset Lights but as they are so heavy they will be very expensive in Postage, even sending a ZA202 Taxiway Light costs almost 10 GBP postage to send within the UK.

I did Buy Two Crouse & Hinds HRL Runway Edge Lights from the USA but they cost 30 just on the Postage

Finding Lamps is easy I nornally look under the above but change the Light to Lamp or Bulb, and search under 6.6A and Airway Beacon again there are a few Airfeld Lamps listed on the US E-bay

In the UK there is a PAPI light Unit listed on the UK E-bay see http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Airfield-Runway-Papi-Light_W0QQitemZ280451512804 but it's Pick up Only, which is ashame as It's on my Wanted List, I would like to find one of the Thorn PAPI units as they should be easy to post in the UK as they measure 420mm x 285mm x 195mm

All the Best

Colin

olympusman
18-01-2010, 12:02
Thanks for your advice.

I set a limit to lights of a 'reasonable' weight... so no insets via post ! ! !

All the ones I presently have were used in Belgium as from the late 50ties, so no transport costs when swopping.

But would be interested in WWII period too... and that's expensive if something available !

sailormoon_01_uk
18-01-2010, 13:06
No Problems

Re Posting Lighting Equipment, It depends on how big and what the lights are made from vintage Inset Airfield Lights are designed to withstand Aircraft etc to happily run over them, they were very heavy due to being mad of Cast Iron, thus, would be impossible to post, Modern lights are a fraction of the weight due to being made of Cast Aluminium thus are a lot lighter, though heavy enough, to cost say 10 to send within the UK, Elevated Lightis are very light. as they are a lot thinner Cast Aluminium or Pressed Aluminium the heavyest part is the Glass Lens/Domes, they would cost say 5.00 to 8.00 in the UK to Post.

All the Best

Colin

olympusman
18-01-2010, 18:05
I have insets from the 50ties that are over the 40lbs... just imagine the post costs ?
That's why I'm looking for local equipment (mostly ADB/Siemens for Belgium)... luky as Belgium is small !

sailormoon_01_uk
19-01-2010, 23:52
Hi I too have a few Inset Lights mainly Taxiway Lights they are as follows

1 x ADB FTS Airfield/Airport Taxiway Centreline Light. (Straights),
1 x ADB FTC Airfield/Airport Taxiway Centreline Light. (Curves),
1 x Alstom NATO ZA202 Inset Taxiway/Apron Edge Light with Blue Glass filter,
1 x CEGELEC ZA202 Inset Taxiway/Apron Edge Light with Blue Glass filter
1 x GEC ZA202 Inset Taxiway/Apron Edge Light with Blue Glass filter (FAA Red Housing)
1 x GEC ZA202 Inset Taxiway/Apron Edge Light with Blue Glass filter (NATO Green Housing).
1 x GEC ZA202 Inset Taxiway/Apron Edge Lights with Blue Glass filters (Aviation Yellow Housing)
1 x GEC ZA202 Inset Taxiway/Apron Edge Lights with Blue Glass filters (Aviation Yellow Housing) with seating adaptor Restored
1 x GEC ZA202 Inset Taxiway/Apron Edge Lights with Blue Glass filters (Aviation Yellow Housing) with seating adaptor Unrestored
Thorn IN-TOW Airfield/Airport Taxiway Centreline Light,
Thorn IN-TTW Airfield/Airport Taxiway Centreline Light.
Thorn IN-OMA Red Omnidirectional Apron/Taxiway Edge Light.
Thorn IN-TTC Taxiway Centreline Light (Curves),

I also have a ADB FRC Airfield/Airport Runway Centreline Light. and a Thorn Inset INL-RE Airfield/Airport Runway Edge Light,

Most are Modern and use Halogen Lamps except for 2 GEC ZA202s which are Filament Lamps (Dating about 1980s or older)

For Photos see http://airfieldrunwaylighting.yolasite.com/

All the Best

Colin

binbrook74
02-02-2010, 21:46
With regards to the mcs unit how is it actually connected ?
For example if you had 4 scr units,The d9a units etc how would it be connected.
The mcs unit that i have remains of which i am trying to rebuild has about 4 aliminium panels at the back with several plessey type plugs with various markings on them for connections which are connected to the pcb,s which have various relays on them .
Also what voltage do the mcs units run at as i have the black box which is fitted in the cabinet with one in on a plug to 4 small 2 pin plessey plugs which i gather must go to each connected aliminium panel.
Its hard trying to rebuild it as the unit was stripped and thrown all over the floor so basically got a pile of parts which im trying to rebuild .
Hope someone can help in some way.
Regards
Binbrook74

historymadd
05-02-2010, 22:22
With regards to the mcs unit how is it actually connected ?
For example if you had 4 scr units,The d9a units etc how would it be connected.
The mcs unit that i have remains of which i am trying to rebuild has about 4 aliminium panels at the back with several plessey type plugs with various markings on them for connections which are connected to the pcb,s which have various relays on them .
Also what voltage do the mcs units run at as i have the black box which is fitted in the cabinet with one in on a plug to 4 small 2 pin plessey plugs which i gather must go to each connected aliminium panel.
Its hard trying to rebuild it as the unit was stripped and thrown all over the floor so basically got a pile of parts which im trying to rebuild .
Hope someone can help in some way.
Regards
Binbrook74

hi binbrook

you mentioned the plessey word !

i worked for plessey connectors for ten years in northampton from manufacture to inspection.

They shut down in 1990 after being taken over by a welsh firm called AB connectors. i think ab was the first two letters of abercoynon or somewhere like that
we made everything form the filter connector when the bomb went of to the old plain plug and socket.

I have not yet had time to really get over to look at the b centre at abingdon yet the real person to ask is ant1981 he has worked a lot on them !

I think the cables were just put on to connectors and dropped down into the floor tunnel and run along side the lighting

historymadd
05-02-2010, 22:37
I can tell you what's left at Abingdon :)

I had some spare time in 2008 and did a brief survey.

hi ant

i meant the buildings and the other stuff like the remote building in the top left hand corner behind the air traffic which i now believe was the hf builidng like described on this forum some where

the strange half brick bit in the middle by the engine detuner was the direction finder etc.

the other stuff was ils building and radar etc.

he seems to wonder how the mcs was all connected ???

cheers
historymadd

binbrook74
06-02-2010, 11:36
Where are you ant lol

historymadd
06-02-2010, 21:11
hi binbrook

Thats a good question lol

From your pictures and previous posts the cabling would have come in from the bottom or the base of the mcs contoller what is hard to get would be wiring diagrams as each would have been "Field wired up to suit site conditions "

There may have been a standard layout ie mcs and scr etcbut interconnection is beyond my technical knowledge
cheers

binbrook74
06-02-2010, 22:07
Hi
Yeah most of the cables were cut and removed for all i can presume scrap but there were about 10 left.
The power supply cables for each board were left in plus a few connections.
I couldnt find any wiring diagrams at all in th4e building as it was totally pulled apart even down to every single piece of overhead cabling.
They even stripped the mcs down to remove all of the aliminium fastenings which i am trying to find as i will need some to rebuild the unit.
The mcs which is left in the other b centre is pulled apart but does hold some spare parts to which i shall need but the farmer who owns the land wont let anything go and would rather just leave it all in the building which is sat in the middle of a field and slowly the pieces are being rempoved i presume at night by Scrap people .
I did approach him and told him my intended uses for the items ie they were not for scrap but for me to rebuild and preserve the items for future generations to see but some people would rather just leave them to rot and slowly be stolen.
Such a shame really as they are extremely hard to find and in the future they will be another non existent item which only pictures can tell a tale.
Sad but true .
I shall approach the famer again in a few weeks and see if i can twist his arm before crops start growing .
The farmer who owns the opposite side of the airfield is total opposite .
He gives full pemission to wander around his site taking photos etc as he knows the history is slowly being destroyed.
Lets see what happens in the next few weeks else i shall have to try and p[ay scrap value for the items to see if that twists his arm lol.

historymadd
07-02-2010, 16:55
hi binbrook

The typical layout of a b centre as at abingdon was like the attached very rough layout
cheers
hm

binbrook74
07-02-2010, 18:52
Good to see a layout of the building at abingdon.
Binbrooks laypout was totally different to that .
I shall try drawing up a plan of one of the centres later and place it up for you to see.
Do you have many plans drawings of airfield lighting as nothing was found at binbrook just lots of comms plans that was left in tower in pabx room.

Ant1981
08-02-2010, 23:55
Briefly, D9a units had nothing to do with SCRs.

SCRs (now CCRs) are connected from the MCS unit by a multicore cable and plessy. The MCS will simply give the CCR 50v control, back indication and brilliancy signals, based on what selection air traffic control have made.

binbrook74
09-02-2010, 10:44
Thanks for that ant .
Helped me out some more with understanding this unit.
Just wish i could get hold of the aliminium strips that hold everything in its place as all the ally parts were stripped i presune by scrap men as all the nuts and bolts and screws of the units were all over the floor around the unit.
Just the interconnecting of the unit which is confusing me as i have some connecting leads which must have connected each board in a series somehow but with it being dismantled its hard to work it out as no wiring diagrams were left or schematics.
Any ideas who i might be able to contact regarding schematics or even the aliminium strips to complete my unit ant as wouldnt know who to contact regarding these units?

Ant1981
09-02-2010, 20:54
There's lots of electrical diagrams for these, not sure even if they were allowed for distribution, if they'd make sense since the physicals of your MCS is incomplete. The boards would slide into edge connectors, with each frame being linked between one another where necessary.

historymadd
09-02-2010, 22:03
There's lots of electrical diagrams for these, not sure even if they were allowed for distribution, if they'd make sense since the physicals of your MCS is incomplete. The boards would slide into edge connectors, with each frame being linked between one another where necessary.

hi ant

yeah you are right about the sliding in on the edge connectors we made those at plessey

Told binbrook you would know more about it all lol.
cheers hm

binbrook74
10-02-2010, 09:47
I have all the black edge fasteners/guides for all the boards which were strewn around the building and there refastened to the blue connecting strips but im trying to find the aliminium strips to which held all the panels in the cabinet .
I also have several small blue plastic bars/guides which were in the same area but dont actually know if they belonged to the mcs unit or not.They looked like they clipped into something on either end of them.
Wou;ld be nice one day to have the unit complete or as complete as i can get it.
Thanks guys your knowledge of these units have become very helpfull in helping me rebuiuld and work how the unit worked.

Airsparks
11-02-2010, 22:28
Hello All

Just registered on the forum having been watching the airfield lighing posts for several weeks.

Just a little input on the MCS the plessey plugs that you refer to I assume are on the rear or top of the panels in the location Known as the A Centre if this is correct the plessey plugs link from the A Centre to the control desk in ATC several multicore cables linked the control panel in the A Centre to ATC.

The operating voltage of MCS is 50v DC supplied from batteries at the A Centre and each B Centre.

Regards Alastair

sailormoon_01_uk
12-02-2010, 11:29
Hi All

I recieved Two Airport Lamps from the USA, what is Intersting is they are made By Westinghouse and have a MS25013-2 which is actually a Military Stock number, these Lamps were used in C2 type Runway Edge Lights see http://airfieldrunwaylighting.yolasite.com/resources/CH-HRL-Runway-Light.jpg on Military Airbases in the USA, Europe, etc


http://airfieldrunwaylighting.yolasite.com/resources/Westinghouse-6-6a-204w-Airport-Lamp.jpg


Westinghouse Airport Lamp


http://airfieldrunwaylighting.yolasite.com/resources/Westinghouse-6-6a-204w-Airport-Lamp-Details.jpg


Westinghouse Airport Lamp Details


I was wondering if anyone knows if there was a NATO Serial Number for this Lamp, this Lamp is still made by a few US Lamp Manufacturers as 6.6A/T14/2P and Philips make a similar Lamp for the European Market, Ref No 6936C, which is 6.6a 210 watts


All the Best


Colin

binbrook74
12-02-2010, 19:45
Hello All

Just registered on the forum having been watching the airfield lighing posts for several weeks.

Just a little input on the MCS the plessey plugs that you refer to I assume are on the rear or top of the panels in the location Known as the A Centre if this is correct the plessey plugs link from the A Centre to the control desk in ATC several multicore cables linked the control panel in the A Centre to ATC.

The operating voltage of MCS is 50v DC supplied from batteries at the A Centre and each B Centre.

Regards Alastair

Hi alistair
Yeah when i referred to the plessey plugs they are actually situated on the rear of each unit .
All of the other main cables entered in through the bottom i presume as that is where the power junction box was.
Regards
Binbrook74

historymadd
12-02-2010, 20:39
Hi alistair
Yeah when i referred to the plessey plugs they are actually situated on the rear of each unit .
All of the other main cables entered in through the bottom i presume as that is where the power junction box was.
Regards
Binbrook74


hi there

plessey made these connectors but i recall all connectors had a NATO number to allow for interchanability between nato countries.

This was to standardise the pin layouts and were keyed around to stop any mix up when being used

They did go from the b centre to the a centre there are some still in the back of Raf Abingdon control tower. Ant will correct me if i am wrong i think they went to the D9 ?


The a centre was usually in the air traffic control or nearby
cheers

Ant1981
12-02-2010, 20:51
As an earlier poster said, the panel in the tower, was connected to the A centre MSC with plesseys. D9s played no part in this. D9s picked up 50v signals from LDU's as a form of a direct wire service, not usually linked to MCS at all.

B Centre MCS units were connected via telemetry wich was picked up off the airfield ring, from the LDU.

Then plesseys fired off cables from B Centre MCS to SCRs, CCRs and to D22's for TMS/TMS-E's.

Airsparks
12-02-2010, 21:14
Hi all

I thought Ant 1981 would have picked up on my user name.

The MCS requires all the componenets from both the A centre and at least one B centre in order to operate. If any of the components are missing it will not work. From all the posts I have read a considerable amount of the system is still missing. All the relay boards appear to be missing and all the telemetry boards are missing without those the system would be a long way off complete. When the airfields close the usable parts are removed as spares stock for other airfields.

Regarding light fittings when the airfields have been refurbished they usually go for scrap.

historymadd
12-02-2010, 21:39
As an earlier poster said, the panel in the tower, was connected to the A centre MSC with plesseys. D9s played no part in this. D9s picked up 50v signals from LDU's as a form of a direct wire service, not usually linked to MCS at all.

B Centre MCS units were connected via telemetry wich was picked up off the airfield ring, from the LDU.

Then plesseys fired off cables from B Centre MCS to SCRs, CCRs and to D22's for TMS/TMS-E's.

hi ant
you know as usual lol
must be getting joining the old abingdon coffin dogers lol

cheers

binbrook74
12-02-2010, 22:33
Hi all

I thought Ant 1981 would have picked up on my user name.

The MCS requires all the componenets from both the A centre and at least one B centre in order to operate. If any of the components are missing it will not work. From all the posts I have read a considerable amount of the system is still missing. All the relay boards appear to be missing and all the telemetry boards are missing without those the system would be a long way off complete. When the airfields close the usable parts are removed as spares stock for other airfields.

Regarding light fittings when the airfields have been refurbished they usually go for scrap.

Hi
I have all the relay boards and the other boards which go into the slots.
I would eventually like to have a complete unit for just display purposes but if i were to find all the other missing parts of the system maybe one day in the future i could connect it to a scr and run some lights but that is way off in the future.
Just really want to build up a complete unit for display .
But thanks to all you guys you have really started to make me understand how the system works .
Great help thank you

Ant1981
14-02-2010, 13:47
Hi
I have all the relay boards and the other boards which go into the slots.
I would eventually like to have a complete unit for just display purposes but if i were to find all the other missing parts of the system maybe one day in the future i could connect it to a scr and run some lights but that is way off in the future.
Just really want to build up a complete unit for display .
But thanks to all you guys you have really started to make me understand how the system works .
Great help thank you

If you ever got hold of an SCR, be bloody careful.

historymadd
14-02-2010, 14:37
If you ever got hold of an SCR, be bloody careful.

hi binbrook

ants right an scr is not your average transformer very dangerous bit of kit unless you understand how they work.

they vary current not the voltage .

cheers

binbrook74
14-02-2010, 14:42
Hi thank you for the advice.
If and when i ever get hold off one i very much doubt i could run it as they need a 3 phase supply dont they ?
Think thats what the schematic attached to a unit reads.