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Peter Kirk
04-05-2009, 12:40
I suspect most of you have used the Flight Magazine Archive. If you haven't its here

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/index.html

There is an awful lot there and much of it very useful but the search has a nasty habit of bring up ads with your keyword in it rather than articles.

Of the stuff I have found this is by far the most intriguing http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1954/1954%20-%202185.html

mawganmad
05-05-2009, 16:06
Somebody didn't want us to find out about Ultra Lights or Bristol it seems! Changed their minds though as pages have been rescanned.

This is the best, and most historicaly factual, aviation online resource

Peter Kirk
05-05-2009, 16:33
The pre-WW2 ones seem to be the most informative airfields-wise. Once you get to the 70s onwards it appears to be more industry focused. There are some great pics of early Heathrow and Gatwick as well. I wonder where the original photos went?

There was an article about a potential airfield at Sidcup (SE London or Kent for the older ones). Being a commuter area with little open space I wondered where it would go but the I remembered that most of the surrounding housing was built in the 1930s so that probably knocked it on the head.

All we need now is the Aeroplane archive or the old Aviation News whose first airfield history was Cowley! I never knew it was an airfield until then!

Was the "Air Pilot" a monthly magazine? I have seen references to it but the name seems to vary, somtimes "Aero Pilot" or "The Air Pilot" etc.

mawganmad
05-05-2009, 17:59
The pre-WW2 ones seem to be the most informative airfields-wise. Once you get to the 70s onwards it appears to be more industry focused. There are some great pics of early Heathrow and Gatwick as well. I wonder where the original photos went?


How do you think the bulk of my Heathrow research is being undertaken?! :)
All the original photos are kept at the 'Flight' archive at Quadrant house, and can be bought - for a biggish fee!
However the photos and reproduction of them is superb.

An 'Aeroplane' archive would be great, but (purely from the mags I have) they didn't seem to cover airfields and equipment anywhere as well as 'Flight'.
'Flight' is also very good for the airfield equipment makers information. Fund a cracking advertisement/article on lighting in the '50s.

kebecker
05-05-2009, 18:42
there is a great article about the post war Dorval Airport, I am thinking that these are all copy right so we cannot use them here, correct?

Peter Kirk
05-05-2009, 18:50
there is a great article about the post war Dorval Airport, I am thinking that these are all copy right so we cannot use them here, correct?

I suspect that is correct, although I have sneaked a few through. Maybe you could post a link under overseas?

I did think about posting the link to a 1933 issue which listed most of the airfields in the UK and included maps and layouts of a few as well but I will have to find it again!

hugoj_air
05-05-2009, 20:29
Here it is Peter.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/ ... 01165.html (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1933/1933%20-%201165.html)

and ofcourse it was on 7th Dec 1933. A lot of scrollling before I found it. Why
couldn't it be 7th Jan!!!.

Hugo.

mawganmad
05-05-2009, 21:16
Links are fine, and I would think quoting text and giving the source is exceptable - especialy as it is 'out there' on the web.
However they are very hot on photos, illustrations and whole article copywrite issues.
As regarding maps (or indeed site record plans) you can always redraw these!

Peter Kirk
05-05-2009, 22:32
Thanks Hugo, thats the one. I liked the lists of Towns that expressed an interest. I once spent hours going throught the archive page by page as the search missed quite a lot.

MM, I have often wondered if you copy a map exactly is that allowed or do you have to add your own "style".

Look out for the Helliwells ads from 1939!

hugoj_air
05-05-2009, 22:49
Peter, I believe Ordnance Survey sometimes put in minor errors in order to catch out someone making traced or any other type of direct copies of their maps. As far as I know drawing freehand copies, not incorporating every single detail is allowed.

Hugo.

Peter Kirk
05-05-2009, 23:00
The OS always claim to own the "data" (whatever that means) but I own the house they measured so where does that leave use?

I had another look at the archive early this evening. Those ads are 95% of the returns in a lot cases. What you need is a "No ads" facility in the search or "Ads Only" if you are looking for airfield equipment etc.

I wonder. If I tried searching for ads would I get 95% about airfields?

Thankyou and goodnight.

mawganmad
06-05-2009, 11:53
Peter, I believe Ordnance Survey sometimes put in minor errors in order to catch out someone making traced or any other type of direct copies of their maps. As far as I know drawing freehand copies, not incorporating every single detail is allowed.
Hugo.

That sounds like rubbish to me Hugo, I don't belive an outfit of the calibre and reliability of OS would put in errors for copywrite. Every other map, photographic image, Google Earth etc that I have tried has completely corresponded with OS maps, even old 1920s ones.
If you render your own map just like an OS map then yes I can see there being copywrite issues, but there are so many ways of drawing maps, sources for maps and ways of finishing your own maps and plans. Google Earth makes a good map/plan base for paint.net, while old OS's is good for referencing pre airfield layouts.
PNK I wouldn't finish a map in exactly the same way as existing maps, partly for the reasons above, but partly because we showing different features, ie a runway is a dashed light line on OS, I do them as solid black and filled in because I want the R/W layout to be imediately obvious, buildings are rendered in different colours where possible to show uses, I don't need to render public roads in different colours etc.

Hugo that 'Flight' link is fantastic, imagine if they covered every airfield like that every year!

hugoj_air
06-05-2009, 20:20
That sounds like rubbish to me Hugo, I don't belive an outfit of the calibre and reliability of OS would put in errors for copywrite. Every other map, photographic image, Google Earth etc that I have tried has completely corresponded with OS maps, even old 1920s ones.
Hugo that 'Flight' link is fantastic, imagine if they covered every airfield like that every year!

When I read it years ago, I thought it odd. It said the marks were inconspicuous and several included on each sheet.


The "Flight Archive" is excellent. If you have the time and patient's I'm sure you could find
mention of the vast majority of aerodromes/airfields constructed in the UK and Ireland during
the 20's and 30's. I found an article re a new airfield for Cork City in 1933 called Belvally including maps. It was never built. I've been looking for that for a while now.

Hugo.