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Able Mabel
21-03-2010, 22:05
From what i understand these buildings were of brick construction and had virtually a blast wall for protection all round except for a 'walkway' into the building.
Those that existed at Grimsby had gone before i got there but would like to ask Two things.
Has anybody got a clear photo of how it looked?? and secondly,
What was actually stored in them? what components??

Ian

ianbache
21-03-2010, 23:19
From what i understand these buildings were of brick construction and had virtually a blast wall for protection all round except for a 'walkway' into the building.
Those that existed at Grimsby had gone before i got there but would like to ask Two things.
Has anybody got a clear photo of how it looked?? and secondly,
What was actually stored in them? what components??

Ian

Hi Ian
The component store was for storage of bomb fuses and detornators etc here are a few 2 from Bicester and one from Shepherds Grove post war

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/componentstoreBicester.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/insidecomponentstoreBicester.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii425/LLanbedr/shepherdgrovecomponentstorepostwar.jpg

PETERTHEEATER
22-03-2010, 07:56
Ian, the first two images are not Component Stores but HE Bomb Stores to AM Drawing 3054/36.

A similar one in use:

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l366/PRACHUAP/FiveHundredPoundB-1.jpg

The Shepherds Grove image is of a post war building which was used for storage of tactical nuclear weapons.

Yes, a Component Store was intended to store bomb Fuzes and bomb Detonators. Also used sometimes to store bomb Pistols which were purely mechanical components used in combination with a bomb Detonator.

This is a surviving Component Store at Bicester.

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.911857&lon=-1.128002&z=19.7&r=0&src=msl

The pre-war CS were very sturdily built. Most mid-war Bomb Stores had the 'austerity' version, temporary brick, asbestos cement roofing and fully traversed except for access.

Grimsby opened in November 1941 and had a Type C bomb store to AM Drawing 5416/40 as seen on an aerial photograph dated April 1942. So it should have had Component Store(s) to AM Drawing 5384/40 which came in two versions, a B and a C.

A sketch in Airfield Review No 53, Page 6 indicates that a bomb store was in the southwest but this area is not covered by the aerial photograph. Many airfields with prewar or Type C bomb stores had additional bomb stores added later in the war to Type D pattern and it is likely that this was done at Grimsby.

The layout of the original store cannot be matched in the satellite image. It has been obliterated by post war development but some fractions of the road system survive within the post war golf course.

Able Mabel
22-03-2010, 10:32
Many thanks Peter for the update on that.
I have attached my drawing of the earlier constructed bomb store at 'GY' when in use by the Wellington's of 142. I shall add the drawing number details on my original drawing.
There was a second store built at the Southern aspect of the airfield, i believe in mid 1942. to cater for the larger amount expected when the 100 Sqdn. Lancasters moved in.

Carnaby
22-03-2010, 17:02
Two pictures of Tholthorpe's 13436/40 Location here (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=54.09825885890517&lon=-1.2587914422299133&gz=18&oz=8&gt=1)
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/CoStore2.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/CoStore14.jpg

.. and a 5384/40 at Marston Moor
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/CoStore3.jpg

The store was divided into two compartments, the smaller one being for the storage of detonators, the other for fuses, pistols and exploders.
The latter was frequently 'L' shaped.

Graham

Able Mabel
22-03-2010, 18:31
Graham
thank you very much for the photos, i shall have to seek one out and get some diamensions.

Peter
i dug out the copy of 'AR' 52 and such a terrible plan ...
here is the second bomb storage built at 'GY'

PETERTHEEATER
23-03-2010, 09:08
Thanks Able, I have the original bomb store at GY as being located here:

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.50816712336601&lon=-0.0796349310188092&gz=17&oz=8&gt=1

Or was it a little to the south?

In the absence of visible evidence, I had the later BS as south of Cheapside Road. Since you have made a specialized study of Grimsby, could you give me a positive location for it? I would think that north of the road would put it inside the perimeter track.

Re your 'pencilled' note on your layout of the later store. The 4 bay Type D HE Bomb Store should read 3164/42.

Able Mabel
23-03-2010, 11:04
Peter

many thanks for the location thing on the aerial, three clicks down and you can see the scares of two of the four 200 tonne stores and in the centre the position of the spare fused bombs.
Attached is the site plan of 'GY'
The Pyro/Incend. store was quite a substantial building, being three 'rooms' and well protected with a blast wall. I was told it was based on the Pre-war examples but would like any possibly drawing number to add to my drawing(s)

Ian

P Bellamy
23-03-2010, 14:24
The 4 bay Type D HE Bomb Store should read 3164/42.

I've seen on some RSPs the label "Bomb Stores, Earth, Type D, 3164/42 & 5129/43".
Does anyone know what modification 5129/43 was?

All the best,
PB

PETERTHEEATER
24-03-2010, 08:42
OK Able, I see now! I had the later BS location correctly plotted but I assumed that North on your layout plan was to the top of the page. Now that I rotate it 180 degrees it makes sense!

The Pyro/Incendiary Store in the original BS was - almost certainly - to AM Drawing 18485/40.

Here's a nice one extant at Tatenhill:

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=52.813843455433464&lon=-1.7551786662252962&gz=18&oz=8&gt=1

PETERTHEEATER
24-03-2010, 08:48
Paul, as far as I can find out, the differences between the 3164/42 and 5129/43 is that the latter incorporated minor construction changes made to the former to replace timber kerbs with concrete and a change of the scale (quantities) of hardwood battens to be provide in each compartment on which the bombs were rolled and stacked.

All to save on timber which was in short supply.

Carnaby may have more.

Carnaby
24-03-2010, 11:46
Carnaby may have more.
I thought I was in possession of the later drawing, but alas, no.
3164/42 - which is for Bomb Stores, types B,C,D has had the detail showing the retaining wall at the lorry road crossed out.
There is a note - 'omit the timber (railway sleeper) curb on the top of the brick wall, and substitute concrete'. This may be significant.

No the the type'B' was a single-compartment 50 ton, and the type 'C' was a two-compartment 100 ton job.

Graham

P Bellamy
24-03-2010, 15:59
Thanks chaps,

That matches with what still exists at the sites I was looking at.
Now to see if there's a reason for some Type Ds not having a bank on the outer edge of the outer compartments.
(probably laziness on the part of the RSP cartographer, although I have seen it in period photos too. ;) )

TTFN,
PB

Able Mabel
24-03-2010, 16:25
Peter
Would the Component store on the latter, 3164/42 construction have the same drawing numbers or are they likely to have had a 'newer' design??
Ian

PETERTHEEATER
25-03-2010, 09:16
Thanks chaps,

That matches with what still exists at the sites I was looking at.
Now to see if there's a reason for some Type Ds not having a bank on the outer edge of the outer compartments.
(probably laziness on the part of the RSP cartographer, although I have seen it in period photos too. ;) )

TTFN,
PB

Just to get the terminolgy correct, the 'bank' to which you refer was called a 'traverse'. Because it was made from mounded soil, it was called an 'Earth Traverse' or ET for short.

The AM Drawing 3164/42 shows 4 x 50 ton compartments each separated by an ET and one on each end; so a total of 5. There was also a lateral ET on each side.

The sole purpose of a traverse - in HE stores - is to absorb metal fragments from bombs in the case of an unintentional detonation. They will also, to a degree, absorb blast. Often referred to as an Interceptor Traverse. This is to prevent propagation whereby high velocity fragments striking the outer case of bombs in an adjacent compartment can cause those to detonate too. A blast wave alone will seldom cause adjacent bombs to detonate except in certain circumstances.

Explosive Regulations (then) required a minimum distance from the nominal centre of the store to any military inhabited building within the area to be a minimum of 400 yards. This was the Inside Safety Distance or ISD. Secondly, the minimum distance between the nominal centre of the store and the nearest Civilian building was 700 yards. If these distances could be exceed then certain ETs could be omitted saving time, materials and money. There were exceptions for related Danger Buildings within the 'dump' area.

Thus, when looking at WW2 vertical images and extant bomb stores you will find various permutations of ETs. The minimum would be 3 and the maximum 7 and this can vary from store to store in the same dump.

Just to round off the explanation, the 3164/42 HE Bomb Store (Type D) had four compartments rated at 50 tons each. The 50 tons was not the total weight of the bombs being stored but the Net Explosive Content (NEC). The amount of explosive in each bomb varied according to the type of bomb. So the NCO in charge of the 'Bomb Dump' was supposed to calculate the NEC of each bomb as it went into a compartment to ensure the total was not exceeded. In practice, as Bomber Command ops stepped up and when the USAAF entered the war this was exceeded many times over by invoking a convenient regulation known as 'Relaxed Conditions':)

PETERTHEEATER
25-03-2010, 09:25
Peter
Would the Component store on the latter, 3164/42 construction have the same drawing numbers or are they likely to have had a 'newer' design??
Ian

Yes Able Mable.

If a BS built in late 1942 or after which had the 3164/42 pattern HE Bomb Store, the related Component Store was AM Drawing 4733/42 which was a Nissen Hut with earth traverses. It came in Type A and B the latter being a 12 foot long Nissen. These were the 'austerity' version replacing the earlier de-luxe permanent brick/concrete types built pre-war and early war.

Able Mabel
25-03-2010, 10:46
I'd like to thank you again Peter for those details.
Very informative but must admit trying to visualise a 16ft span Nissen being only being 12ft long, 2 x 6ft sections, quite strange :lol:

Drawing numbers now place on my map(s).
Ian

PETERTHEEATER
25-03-2010, 10:53
I'd like to thank you again Peter for those details.
Very informative but must admit trying to visualise a 16ft span Nissen being only being 12ft long, 2 x 6ft sections, quite strange :lol:

Drawing numbers now place on my map(s).
Ian

Yes, I wondered that. But, the Nissen could be erected in any number of (6 foot) bays so it was physically possible. However, if I have time I will look for an example.

Able Mabel
27-03-2010, 11:35
Peter

Would i be correct in assuming that the Nissen would have had brick ends and no windows ??

ian

PS: I may consider even drawing my own plan of such a component store

PETERTHEEATER
28-03-2010, 08:01
I'm pretty sure that would be the case. Both elevations would have had four ventilators around 9 inches square (230mm) two each top and bottom and a brick pier 3 feet (90 cm) either side of the centreline running vertically up from ground level but not all the up. See the third image down on this thread:

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?t=251&highlight=nissen&page=3

The front elevation only would have had a single door for access located on the centreline between the piers. No windows.

After some rummaging, I find that Tuddenham is credited with having a 4733/42 Type C. So, that means there was a Type A, Type B (Nissen 12 foot long) and a Type C. All three types would have been on the same drawing. I found the Tuddenham RSP for the BS proper but it is not a lot of help (unclear) but I think the Type C was a longer Nissen. Type A, I don't know.

Anyway, you should have enough to figure out an accurate model for the later Bomb Store.

PETERTHEEATER
29-03-2010, 09:59
The standard Nissen was 16 feet wide. The 4733/42 Component Store Type B I have recorded as '12 foot' so I assume that to be 12 feet deep (two sections). Therefore the aspect ratio is incorrect; should be 16 feet wide and 12 feet deep; otherwise OK.

In the absence of the actual drawing I am making an assumption and common sense says it ought to be longer than wider but.....

This pattern was very common but, because it is so temporary I cannot find a survivor to use for comparison.

Able Mabel
29-03-2010, 10:14
Peter

'Gross navigational Error' on my part.
I had drawn it 24' long; thats the trouble when you are distracted.

I shall amend forthwith ..

Knowing a liittle about the Vents, i have seen them more common in 'square' pattern on a 12" x 9" rather than 'longtitude'.
Would you say that the position of the vents are 'par for the course'?

PETERTHEEATER
05-04-2010, 11:07
My previous response has disappeared!

Yes, the position of the vents looks right. Just above each of the lower vents there would have been a 'dumb-iron' fixed into the wall. This was a simple steel bar loop which formed a step so that the poor old armourer could get a leg-up to operate the sliding vent control on the upper vent. Operating the lower vent just gave you a bad back:-)

Able Mabel
09-04-2010, 12:09
Found this whilst searching for material concerning 'bomb-dumps'
Is this a Component Store along the lines of 5384/40 ??
Two 'single' doors and no gantry of sort.

It was photogrpahed at RAF Station Newton

Carnaby
09-04-2010, 19:04
Two 'single' doors and no gantry of sort.
Wouldn't have though a gantry would be needed as bomb components are small and light.

Graham

Able Mabel
10-04-2010, 11:59
Graham
I presumed it wouldn't be bomb storage, as you say, quite light components but .... is it a Component Store 5384/40??

Can you confirm cos if it is i need to be over there and measure it up :o

PETERTHEEATER
10-04-2010, 12:43
It's a Component Store to AM Drawing 3164/37 which also includes the four compartment Fuzed Bomb and Spare Bomb Store. Newton was a pre-war Expansion station and had that current layout.

Only the actual Bomb Stores (3054/36) and, sometimes the FB&SB Store had gantries although te Newton items have been removed for scrap.

Richard Flagg
16-10-2011, 22:15
One of two remaining component stores at Bury St Edmunds (Rougham)

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Bury%20St%20Edmunds/20111014Rougham77-1.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Bury%20St%20Edmunds/20111014Rougham92-1.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Bury%20St%20Edmunds/20111014Rougham79-1.jpg

I've no idea if the writing is original, what do you all think?
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/SUFFOLK/Bury%20St%20Edmunds/20111014Rougham87-1.jpg

PETERTHEEATER
17-10-2011, 06:43
Nice REF, thanks. I should think that the writing on the wall is WW2. When stock was taken out of the building the quantity was recorded on a Stack Card positioned on the topmost box; one for each component and divided (usually) into one card for each Lot Number. Often there were 'fraction' boxes that had been previously opened. The 'taker' had to calculate the remaining stock level for a particular stack and if good mental arithmetic was not a strongpoint, did the sums on the nearest convenient surface. Ball pens did not yet exist so it was the humble pencil. Been there, done that:)

Richard Flagg
20-10-2011, 01:23
Thanks Peter, I thought it might have been as its unusual to see sums written in old buildings.

Karl H
07-07-2012, 17:36
Here are the remains of a Component Store (4733/42) at Thorpe Abbotts. It was made up of two sections of a 16 ft Nissen. The brickwork was double thickness to about two feet and had earth banked against it. There were remains of what appeared to be a metal fram e door lying in the brush as well.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/KPHB17FE/England%202012/Thorpe%20Abbotts/ComponentStore002.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/KPHB17FE/England%202012/Thorpe%20Abbotts/ComponentStore001.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/KPHB17FE/England%202012/Thorpe%20Abbotts/ComponentStore003.jpg

Richard Flagg
09-07-2012, 10:01
Karl, where abouts on the Bomb Stores site is this building at Thorpe Abbotts? I still haven't walked the bomb stores site, will be sorting that out with Ron sometime soon hopefully.

Karl H
09-07-2012, 12:28
It is on the north side of the bomb store, building 86 on the site plan. That is the ONLY thing remaining in the bomb store area other than the roadways. I am very curious as to what the front looked like and what that "notch" in the brick dividing wall was about.

Richard Flagg
09-07-2012, 12:47
Thanks Karl, I hope to get up there soon. Not noticed the notch until you mentioned it just then!

Karl H
09-07-2012, 14:42
Well, get with Ron, he loves to go tromping! And take him along to some other airfields, a more enthusiastic partner you won't find ; ) , he is really enjoying being retired. Here he is leading the way thru the bomb stores in the mud (imagine that). I would like so much to be there again. The more I look at this website, the more places I wish I had gone. Would prefer nicer weather though...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/KPHB17FE/England%202012/Thorpe%20Abbotts/HasegawaD367.jpg

Richard Flagg
11-07-2012, 08:19
There is plenty of time to head back over Kerl, we'll get the weather sorted next time though! I really must give Ron a shout and sort a day out with him.

Able Mabel
15-08-2012, 18:23
I'd like to visit the stores area to view and take some measurement of the Nissen hut Conponent Store. then pop along to Rougham and do the same for the 5380/40 Component Store there ...

Richard Flagg
16-08-2012, 00:02
I'd like to visit the stores area to view and take some measurement of the Nissen hut Conponent Store. then pop along to Rougham and do the same for the 5380/40 Component Store there ...

It can be arranged Able Mabel, let me know when you are thinking of heading down this way