View Full Version : Control Towers / Watch Offices Discussion Thread
CONTROL TOWERS
Control towers, or “Watch Offices” as they were initially known, have, like most airfield buildings, evolved out of necessity both in terms of the roles they played and the enforcement of design influenced by the need for them to become quickly operational and the restriction of building materials available. This was perhaps obviously more felt during the war years when a more or less “generic” form of control tower, with a few variations, could be seen springing up on the duration only airfields then being constructed.
This evolution however is interesting and whilst not going into too much detail the following should give a brief but potted history of their design and evolvement. Those wishing to research further are advised to read “Control Towers” by Paul Francis, also the website “Control Towers” is equally recommended.
As is well known the early flying fields were rudimentary affairs, indeed aviation and air power was in it’s infancy, proper flying control was not possible initially until the concept of radio in aircraft was embraced. The initial watch offices then were simple affairs, usually basic hutting with extra windows, one of these survives today at Duxford in Cambridgeshire as building 89.
The watch offices like all airfield structures carried a design number followed by the last two numbers of the year of design. The most common inter-war watch office was the fort type, the 1959/34 was brick built whilst the 207/36 was pre-cast concrete. Examples surviving today including design 1959/34 at RAF Biscester and this example at RAF Cosford
COSFORD TOWER
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/Cosford11thJune2006076.jpg
Some of the Fort type structures were modified and adapted in many ways, some by having the centre Fort removed and replaced with a larger control room, this being re-designated 4698/43. An example of this can be seen today at the former RAF Hemswell in Lincolnshire, a further addition has also been added to the right of the 4698/43 design.
As war became ever more probable what became known as the “Expansion period” in the late 1930’s saw many airfields constructed to a very similar design. Self contained a having elaborate brick built structures it followed that the watch offices would be equal in design. This brought about the appearance of grandiose almost art-deco types of tower such as 756/36 at RAF Manby, one of the most common tower from this period was the 5845/39, examples being constructed at RAF Swinderby and Middleton St George amongst other locations. A good example of how the supply of materials coupled with the need to bring airfields into service quicker can be seen with the brick built 5845 design, a sectional concrete version, and therefore quicker to assemble, was brought into service as the 2328/39, an example of which can be seen at RAF Toplcliffe in Yorkshire.
In the war years, as said earlier, design was more or less standardised. The largest wartime design, based upon the previously mentioned 5845 was the “Watch Office with Met Section” 518/45 had an all timber first floor and balcony, whilst 8936/40 had a timber balcony and control room floor. The “Watch Office for All Commands” was designed for use on training airfields but became the standard building for all commands in late 1943, this design was 12779/41, some were modified to 15371/41, these had small front windows, and some modified to bring them up design standard 343/43. This design became the standard Watch Office For All Commands tower after 1943.
During the war years there were other types of tower, satellite stations tended to have their own designs; Bomber satellite type A had examples of 15898/40, 15956/40 and 17821/40, followed by type B which was 7345/41. Fighter satellite stations had such designs as 1536/42 and 7332/42.
The last type of tower designed during the war was a three storey type and was intended for what would become “very heavy bomber stations” This was design 294/45 and examples were built at Lakenheath, Marham and Sculthorpe, amongst others.
The evolution of the tower would continue after WW2, many of the surviving war towers were modified and had large “greenhouses” added giving better visibility, such as RAF Manby. New designs of tower were also constructed; 5223a/51 was built in the Korean War with examples constructed at various airfields including Brize Norton Greenham Common and Mildenhall. New designs were also built for the V bomber force airfields as well as replacing earlier designs at other stations such as the “modern” tower at RAF Manby in Lincolnshire, 2548c/55.
There is no tower left at Watton, Demoished a few years ago
Richard
olympusman
30-04-2008, 22:37
I am interested in the evolution of the Control Towers as from 1939.
Which book do you suggest me ?
I've seen one from author 'Paul Francis' :wink: ... any other book on the subjecy around ?
Hi,
I would recommend Graham Buchan Innes' superb book British Airfield Buildings Volume 2 published in 2000 by Midland Publishing ISBN 1-85780-101-6. I'll try and PM you a scan of one page of the content - see if it's what you need.
Cheers
Ian J
Hi
Paul Francis (norwichpaul on this site) is the authority on the subject, drop him a pm.
binbrook74
01-05-2008, 23:03
I can vouch for nowich pauls book.
Is full of a lot of information on control towers.Worth a good read.
Control towers are really fascinating.
There is quite a lot of different desighns .
olympusman
01-05-2008, 23:42
I'am looking for a book with quality plans of control towers thru the war years and even later... which one is the best ?
binbrook74
02-05-2008, 09:26
I can help you with plans for the 2328/39 version as got a copy of the prints from raf museum several years ago.
There is two all together.
One is a amendment with different equipment layouts .
Pm me if you are interested and i will see if i can scan it for you.
norwichpaul
02-05-2008, 22:32
Carnaby (on here) wrote the airfield lighting chapter in 'Paul Francis' book on control towers. It was written back in 1993 and is still the best there is on the subject (well I would say that wouldn't I).
norwichpaul
02-05-2008, 23:03
The description 'fort' type was invented by Dr. Ron Blake in the early 1970s, when he correctly described its shape as a 'child's fort'. Ron was perhaps the first person in the UK to write serious papers on airfields, one of his first being 'Disused Airfields as a Planning Resourse'. The man is a legend. The Directorate of Buildings and Works description of the building is 'Watch Office with Tower', there was also a Watch Office without Tower but only one is believed to have been built, at Hornchurch. Jumping ahead REF to 1945, you mentioned the VHB control tower - perhaps the first true military control tower (at least in the UK as all others are presumed to be Watch Offices), but what about the VHT tower or Very Heavy Transport CT (also of 1945) as built at Heathrow and St Mawgan - both are belived to be extant. More details can be found in my CT book.
mawganmad
08-05-2008, 10:31
Nice to see the VHT mentioned, to my mind it was the ultimite military tower design along with the VHB.
St Mawgans 1228/43 is indeed still extent and in full use for the time being, but I thought Heathrows was demolished a long time ago (mid '50s?).
I would really like to see more info and pictures of Heathrows original tower - any out here?
Heres a link to my St Mawgan tower webpages, http://st.mawgantower.mysite.orange.co.uk/
and my info and pics here on Robert Trumans excellent site,
http://www.controltowers.co.uk/S/St_Mawgan.htm
mawganmad
16-05-2008, 12:54
I was thinking that it would be great to see pictures of as many surviving and serving control towers as possible.
Before anyone suggests controltowers.co.uk, there are many towers that aren't pictured on the site.
How about we post ONE recent/current photo of a tower that we are familier with, have seen, or just have pictures of, with maybe ONE old photo of it if available?
Hopefully this could then turn into a forum database for towers, old and new, and their current status.
Good idea or no?
Woolfox:
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0876-1.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0869-1.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0864.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0863.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0865.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0866.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0867.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0870.jpg
Thanks to Mr. M....... for permission and a full report will follow when I get time.
North Witham
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0936.jpg
Underneath.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0940.jpg
Interior.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0941.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0942.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/Gingie28/DSCF0943.jpg
Many thanks to one of the forest rangers, Rick I think his name was, for keeping an eye on Jakob and I.
Report to follow as work keeps interupting my day.
John Cooper
16-05-2008, 14:05
Martlesham Heath [Suffolk] the top floor has an excellent museum
http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/41337/1280865261035970728S600x600Q85.jpg (http://http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1280865261035970728NFyAMX)
Swannington
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/swannington12.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/swannington13.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/swannington14.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/swannington15.jpg
Little Staunton
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/LittleStauntonTechnicalsite4.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/LittleStauntonTechnicalsite5.jpg
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/LittleStauntonTechnicalsite6.jpg
mawganmad
16-05-2008, 20:20
Excellent start guys!
Looks like Little Staunton and Woolfox might have been lived in at one time - I don't think a fireplace was standard anyway!
Heres my favourite, both design and location wise, RAF St Mawgan VHT 1228/43.
First pic was taken in c.1957 from the east.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pagen/st%20mawgan%20tower/SMTowerc57fromE.jpg
This pic was taken in September 2007 and is from the South.
This is a good angle as it excludes the modern developments on the west side of the tower and shows the same, not often seen, original 'Seco' hutting which is visible in the 'old' photo.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/pagen/st%20mawgan%20tower/SMTowerSept07frmSE.jpg
Gransden Lodge
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/GL.jpg
Bardney
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/bd.jpg
Catfoss
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/cf.jpg
Coleby Grange
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/cg.jpg
East Kirkby
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/ek.jpg
Hemswell
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/hw.jpg
Swinderby 1
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/sw1.jpg
Swinderby 2
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/sw2.jpg
Wymeswold
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t145/ryan7480_bucket/ww.jpg
Strubby has altered since I last saw it, although I recall Simon T saying they were renovating it, nice to see it.
John Cooper
17-05-2008, 15:06
Dounreay Control Tower now a visitor centre for The Nuclear Power Station
http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/39696/2395114630035970728S600x600Q85.jpg (http://http://family.webshots.com/photo/2395114630035970728VIVPvm)
Hixon, Staffordshire
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/P6100150.jpg
Sturgate, Lincolnshire
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/P1010172.jpg
Acaster Malbis, Yorkshire
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/P1010113.jpg
Chris
mawganmad
17-05-2008, 16:39
I didn't realise that Dounreay was once an airfield, thanks for that.
Excellent posts and pics, far more than I anticipated. If you can add dates that would be nice.
Gamston, Nottinghamshire
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/P1010069.jpg
Wickenby, Lincolsnhire
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/P5270138.jpg
Rufforth, Yorkshire
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/P1010270.jpg
Chris
Last lot from me for the time being....
Hutton Cranswick, Yorkshire
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/DSCF5628.jpg
Grimsby (Waltham) 1, 1992
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/99.jpg
Grimsby (Waltham) 2, 1992
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/97.jpg
Grimsby (Waltham) 3, 2005
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/98.jpg
Chris
Does this count? Ipswich.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/Ipswichterminal3.jpg
Yes, that counts! Given that Norwich Airport is the former RAF Horsham St. Faith (USAAF Station 123) then it's very valid.
Chris
Is that the original one Jason or the rebuilt one at Ipswich?
Nice photo though, I was going to head down there sometime soon
Richard
It's the rebuilt version, i went down earlier this year just as they were finishing it off, it was only when i got home and saw a website that i realised it was a rebuild.
It was a listed building as well if my memory serves me correctly!
gridnutter
03-06-2008, 17:01
Montford Bridge, Shropshire
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/gridnutter/RAF%20Montford%20Bridge/DSCF3350.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/gridnutter/RAF%20Montford%20Bridge/DSCF3351.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/gridnutter/RAF%20Montford%20Bridge/DSCF3352.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/gridnutter/RAF%20Montford%20Bridge/DSCF3355.jpg
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii279/gridnutter/RAF%20Montford%20Bridge/DSCF3356.jpg
Griddy
You beat me too it, I was at Montford Bridge over the weekend and took some photos which I was going to post!!
RAF Skipton-on-Swale
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/mayo8skiptonetc102.jpg
Chris
Control tower at Leicester East.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/IMGP1521.jpg
Newton
http://images.fotopic.net/yiz8et.jpg
Hibaldstow
http://images.fotopic.net/ynsgzq.jpg
Sandtoft (with original firetender shed to the right, and the USAF firetender shed to the left)
http://images.fotopic.net/yn7w2d.jpg
RAF Wainfleet
http://images.fotopic.net/yn7wvv.jpg
Just looking at the pic of Ludham, is that recent?
Thought that one was restored a few years back, don't tell me its been trashed AGAIN?
If so that is a bitter shame.
Anyway, Cranwell (need a better camera for this long distance shot)
http://images.fotopic.net/yjse6u.jpg
RAF Cranwell post war control tower 2548c/55 (west face)
Picture courtesy of Keith Steadman
I have a lot more pictures that Keith has given me permission to post up, most of the photos he took were for his Flight sim version of RAF Cranwell. He sent them to me for my personal collection.
I'll post some up later
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o231/3DImages/RAF%20Cranwell/Tower07.jpg
Stevo ;)
mawganmad
23-06-2008, 15:34
In my ongoing researches of St Mawgan, I have found three passages that have led me to ask the above question.
A book about the station states it had a 518/40 with extension.
A controllers account from his time at Mawgan states that he was in a two storey tower. He mentions moving kit from the old tower to the new one.
Another source states that the current VHT tower opened in May 1944, a year after the runways opened.
No other evidence I have backs up any of the above, and I'm wondering if two of the sources are just wrong, and was the controller working out of Trebelzue tower, but that seems just a bit two far away from the main runways.
What I need to know is, could it have been possible that a 518/40 tower was built in early '43, only to be completely replaced and removed by mid '44?
norwichpaul
28-06-2008, 15:31
I dont think so, RAF St Mawganmad was built too late for the 518/40.
mawganmad
28-06-2008, 16:48
Thanks NP, just reaching the same conclusion myself NP, another source stated she moved from Trebelzue to the new 3 storey tower.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370025.jpg
Wymeswold.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370058.jpg
Langar.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370084.jpg
Waddington. Couldn't resist getting a quick snap of this whilst i was at the Waddington airshow last weekend.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370094.jpg
Husbands Bosworth. above and below.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370091.jpg
Of all the existing control towers,which is the best original control tower that is still standing? Towers that have been fully restored can only count if they had alot of original fittings remaining prior to restoration.
I'll post this up for starters, I know its the same as what I put on key!
So many to choose from really Peter, places like Skipton on Swale (http://airfields.fotopic.net/Skiptononswale) look good, Bodney (http://airfields.fotopic.net/bodney), Ingham (http://airfields.fotopic.net/ingham), Coleby Grange (http://airfields.fotopic.net/colebygrange) are all candidates but I think Little Snoring (http://airfields.fotopic.net/littlesnoring) is one of the best I have seen.
One of the worst has to be Metheringham (http://airfields.fotopic.net/metheringham).
There are alot of Towers that could be great projects, there is a few photos on here from places like Kings Cliffe and Woolfox Lodge, both I am yet to visit.
Probably one of the towers which could be included to "restored as it was" rather that a museum is Debach (http://airfields.fotopic.net/debach)
That's a bit of a question Peter and probably quite subjective. Many of the towers which have been restored - as I'm sure you'll know - were resurrected from bare shells with few, if any, original fixtures and fittings still in situ and many of the restored towers have "imported" items in them. Two I would nominate are East Kirkby and Debach.
Chris
How could I have forgotten about East Kirkby (http://airfields.fotopic.net/eastkirkby), a great conrol tower and very well done.
Wow Debach looks interesting!
Hi Peter,
You seem to have the same obssesion with control towers that i have. I want them ALL preserved!! Have a look at the Woolfox Lodge pics i've just posted when you get the time mate.! Again another old tower which could defitnetley be saved!
Really love the look of the Colbey Grange tower. I've heard so many stories about that place and i've passed it almost every year on the way home from Waddington's Airshow but i've never had the chance to have a look around it.
I think Duxfords tower looks pretty authentic even if the glass house on the roof isn't original. They "removed" it off the control tower at Nuneaton airfield. That said it's still a classic example of a ww2 tower.
mawganmad
22-07-2008, 10:16
St Mawgans VHT tower is the oldest still in full RAF service, with a compliment of over 30 air traffic controllers and a full radar room, it is a testimant to the original AM designers.
It has been reclad in alloy sheeting and has the addition of a /55 type VCR room on top which detracts from its original external look, but the interior is still mainly painted brick finish and all the rooms are original.
Wow Debach looks interesting!
Peter, Debach is a very interesting place. Our visit was marred largely by some bloody awful weather. Standing on the tower balcony wasn't pleasant and no, I didn't brave the roof!
The site is run as a private museum, so it's permission only but it's so worth the visit. My own photos are here (http://airfieldarchaeology.fotopic.net/c1485748.html)
They do have open days as well, so it's worth keeping an eye on their web site here (http://www.493bgdebach.co.uk/dahome.htm)
If you have a week to spare, then a holiday in East Anglia as a whole is well worth it. Only managed a few days at a time myself (along with NJR and crashing at REF's), so it can become quite a busy holiday. Worth every minute though!
Chris
Some great pics there Chris. Something about old airfields......!
Not in the wet though Peter! And that day was horrible which was a pity. Mind you, some might say it adds to atmosphere.....
Chris
Chris, is the color right inside some of the rooms of the Tower as they look wrong to me?
Chris, is the color right inside some of the rooms of the Tower as they look wrong to me?
Inside the tower at Debach you mean? I don't know but the hues in the photos are undoubtedly wrong. It was tricky lighting and quite dark, so that will affect the results - with or without the flash. This is why I asked the original question!
Yes, they may be wrong but I'm not going to have a go at anyone for the amount of effort they've put into their tower and museum but your point is very valid Peter and it's worth bringing up.
Chris
One of the worst has to be Metheringham.
True REF but i reckon a close 2nd must be Ellough, i don't know how long it can remain standing.
The right hand side is pulling away badly, at the top of the stairs you can get your foot in the crack.
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/Becclescontroltower3.jpg
Ellough - Is that another name for Beccles by any chance? USAAF Station 132 and later transferred to RAF Bomber Command and latterly the FAA? We've been in that tower and it's horrifying. I know what you mean about the gap at the top of stairs Jason! The crack in wall doesn't inspire confidence either. It's also very vandalised.
I was wondering the same as yourself Jason and will it be one which just collapses in on itself?
Yes, Metheringham's tower is a bit of a wreck, isn't it!?
Chris
This will be the crack you mean then Jason;
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/Flyer719/Beccles/DSC_0180.jpg
Chris, yes you are right Ellough is better known as Beccles.
That be the one Richard, it seems this particular tower has gone beyond the point of no return. It's just a matter of time before it goes, once the corner goes thats it. I photographed it 4 years before that picture ( taken last year ) and it wasn't so bad, vandals though have done no favours. There was talk of restoring it years ago but it was the same old chestnuts, money and manpower, neither were forth coming so it's been left to its fate.
With large structural failure like that , I would say it's days are numbered too!
Had a letter from English Heritage to say Davidstows control tower is about to be listed.
norwichpaul
23-07-2008, 09:04
Does the letter say that EH are going to submit the building for listing, or does it say that the Minister has decided that it will be listed? They are worlds apart and clarification is needed. I would of thought that Scheduling would be more appropriate??
The North Witham thread has prompted me to ask this, how many control towers had cellars or is the North Witham tower unique?
I am a bit of a "tower addict" i must admit...Heres the control tower at Newton...
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370365.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370374.jpg
..and Kings Cliffe
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/spinback/SL370126.jpg
Duxford
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/Duxford19-8-07001.jpg
Manby. Original Watch Office
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/ORIGINALWATCHOFFICE1.jpg
and 1955 one
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/1955WATCHOFFICE1.jpg
Wickenby
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk20/Cavboy80/CAV019-6.jpg
mawganmad
20-08-2008, 20:00
I am a bit of a "tower addict" i must admit...
Join the club, oh you have lol! Must admit my favourite subject, got some cracking images there Stevie.
What is the Wickenby tower used for now?
Is Duxfords tower the only one to still have an original type VCR cupola fitted and still in use?
I know there is one removed and preserved at Brooklands.
Hi
In the 1972 pic of Duxfords tower on this thread http://airfieldinformationexchange.free ... -t311.html (http://airfieldinformationexchange.freeforums.org/duxford-1972-t311.html) the tower doesn't have a VCR.
Stevo ;)
Wickenby tower has a variety of things going on in it, the ground floor has a small cafe, rest area for the light aircraft flying club who fly on a grass strip in front of the tower, the 1st floor has a small museum about Wickenby which has various displays. There are also some offices up here, on the staircase are lots of photos from WW2 when the site was active, off the main road going into the entrance towards the tower is the memorial
Thanks Mawganmad,
I can't help but feel a little bit let down when you visit an old airfield and the control tower is no longer there.
The VCR on top of Duxford's Tower was originally standing on top of the control tower at Nuneaton airfield. Nuneaton's new role as a proving ground meant that they no longer required the VCR (although the tower there is still used for controlling movements on the airfields although it's cars etc etc nowadays not aircraft) and the VCR was removed and restored and found it's way on to Duxfords tower in the summer of 1989.
norwichpaul
20-08-2008, 22:39
Surely Weston super Mare is owned by Slough Estates is it not?
binbrook74
20-08-2008, 23:04
Some gr8 pics there of the towers.
I would love to get hold of a desk which were fitted in the vcr rooms so i can refit it out with all the equipment i got from Raf Binbrook.
Did see a pic somewhere of a old tower somewher with the desk just left in there but cant remember which one.
I do have a set of plans for the desk but it doesnt list all the dimensions so a bit stuck there unless i can measure one up .
mawganmad
21-08-2008, 11:26
Did see a pic somewhere of a old tower somewher with the desk just left in there but cant remember which one.
.
West Raynham?
mawganmad
21-08-2008, 11:28
Hi
In the 1972 pic of Duxfords tower on this thread http://airfieldinformationexchange.free ... -t311.html (http://airfieldinformationexchange.freeforums.org/duxford-1972-t311.html) the tower doesn't have a VCR.Stevo ;)
Interesting (and very interesting pics in that link)
I could be getting mixed up, but was it Duxfords cupola that ended up at Brooklands?
The tower at Bentwaters till has the desks in, in the glass house part
I had not realised North Witham had a cellar - and I have never seen or heard of any other WW2 towers with them.
I am surprised no-one has mentioned Elvington's tower here - restored by the Yorkshire Air Museum of course.
I seem to remember a film where a bunch of robbers holed up in a control tower and beneath it was an air raid shelter. I was convinced all control towers had them. I thought film was fact then!!!!!
The film might have been Robbery but as I haven't seen it in decades I can't be sure.
Peter
Seeing pictures of the tower that once stood at Melton Mowbray reveals that that had an extra bottom floor. The tower was a 12779/41 with an additional floor (much larger than the exta floor on Withams control tower) which stored the night flying equipment and fire tender. The Floodlight tractor and trailer shed stood next to the tower.
Stangely though on site plans of Melton airfield the tower apparently is described as a conventional tower for some reason.
The son of the owner at Graveley told myself and REF that there is a cellar under that tower, apparently the original Great Train Robbery film had a scene where the robbers take the cash to the Control Tower and go down a cellar, the current owners have an idea where it is but believe it's flooded.
Having visited many sites i have always wondered why Control Towers are built on the areas of the airfield where they are, did someone notice the area where they stand/stood as being having a better vantage point than other areas on the site, some i have noticed are built outside the
Peri Track ( Thorpe Abbotts ) whilst others were within the Peri ( Little Staunton ).
Thats basically the reason Jason. A good position to observe the circuit, main and secondary runways. All points of the airfield must be visible from the flying control tower. Hunsdons tower was positioned outside of the peritrack by a few feet, Sawbridgeworths was inside and Matching airfields tower was also within the peritrack.
John Cooper
04-09-2008, 07:58
How about this one then off Kidwelly/Pembrey Sands, South Wales, the CT is by the beach. This is where you can see a flying display most weekdays and bombing runs. Plus an occasionally C130 doing touch and gos on the the flat straight beach
http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/16430/2630107280035970728S600x600Q85.jpg (http://http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2630107280035970728pPuzrZ)
David Thompson
04-09-2008, 12:23
Strangely the airport terminal apron cannot be seen visually from the control tower because the view is obstructed by two hangars . The controllers rely on a CCTV camera ! When it was RAF Middleton St George all the ASP's were around hangars 1 , 2 and 3 and visible from the tower . The new terminal was built in 1965-66 on land were the Lightning simulator stood and it was incorporated into the new building .
Great Orton's tower is of interest as it was (is?) in the right place, but 90 degrees out, as it faced the taxi-track, not the main runway. First noted in AS3 by Dave Smith 1981.
norwichpaul
07-09-2008, 20:07
The Pembrey Sands CT must be the bombing range not the airfield surely?
PETERTHEEATER
08-09-2008, 09:04
It certainly is NP.
Peter H
mawganmad
08-09-2008, 10:03
It is and is a range control tower which works in conjucton with the two sighting towers. Also talks to the aircraf operating on the range for clearences, weather and local information.
Its one of the most hideos towers I have ever been in.
Re positioning of airfield towers, I thought facing the main runway, with both approaches visible, and if possible facing North was the preferred layout since early war years.
This control tower at Davidstow Moor looks similar to North Withams! It's certainly raised higher than usual. Could this tower also have a cellar? Have a look and see what you think....
http://www.controltowers.co.uk/D/Davidstow_Moor.htm
Cheers,
Steve
kebecker
25-09-2008, 14:02
The term raised I think is far more acurate that the use of cellar to describe Noth Witham, cellar implies underground, NW is all above ground with the exception of the switch gear room which if memory serves extends below ground level ( it nearly always had water in the bottom during the 70's). It would be very interesting to see the drawing for this local variation
mawganmad
14-10-2008, 14:54
Was one ever built and do plans exist of it?
norwichpaul
14-10-2008, 15:20
Source of the drawing??
mawganmad
14-10-2008, 17:32
Source of the drawing??
I'm asking if a drawing of it might exist?
norwichpaul
14-10-2008, 17:55
OK, source of the drawing number?
mawganmad
14-10-2008, 18:14
Oh, Carnaby very kindly sent me scans re the current tower at St Athan.
Mention is made that a new ATC Local 277/50 had actually received planning and approval originally, with an unrecommended alternative being to rebuild the existing 'fort' watch office with a modern VCR.
A recommendation was put in that the 2548/55 be used instead of the already planned 277/50.
Would love to know more?
norwichpaul
14-10-2008, 18:30
I have a drawing of the local ATC but its buried under hundreds of plans. I will look it up, but its going to be a while - actually on second thoughts its dated 1955 not 1950. Hmm a bit early, none built then as the 5871c/55 had not been invented yet and neither had the one on the 5223a/51 (North Weald, Biggin and Greenham etc) which leaves either a Seco (Alconbury, Edzell) type or the VCR on the VHB.
mawganmad
15-10-2008, 18:07
I take it the VHB VCR would have to be mounted on a dedicated building? It was to be sited where the current tower is. I'm wondering if it would have looked similar to the 7378a/55 shorties - ala Swinderby?
Reading between the lines it seems St Athan didn't require a largish tower until the late '50s, when V force aircraft were considered for servicing on the station.
Again speculating, Im wondering if the modified 'fort' tower with VCR, or this 'local control' 277/50 was considered enough for the job, up until the period of the large jets arriving, and thats when the 2548/55 was agreed on.
canberra
07-12-2008, 16:25
Only place I ever was at where the tower had a cellar was Gutersloh.
canberra
18-12-2008, 20:06
Now that answers a question. On another web site they have Heath Row (thats how it used to be spelt) as having one of the VHB towers that Marham Sculthorpe Lakenheath and West Raynham got. I thought Id never seen one of the VHB towers at Heathrow.
P Bellamy
19-12-2008, 02:17
I always had the impression Heath Row was intended for Transport Command use, and to have had a Very Heavy Bomber airfield in that location seemed somewhat odd.
There's a nice photo of Heathrow in October 1945, with the original three-runway layout at http://www.rafmuseumphotos.com/pictures_1043234/Heathrow-Airport-1945.html.
There is also a 1949 film of Heathrow available at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/1945to1951/filmpage_la.htm which includes a drive-by of the tower:
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/hr2.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/hr1.jpg
All the best,
PB
What were the VHT's that the VHT airfields were built for?
canberra
20-12-2008, 10:12
I did read that Heath Row was intended for B-29s to be used, but whether or not that was just a story by the government to build the airport I dont know. As for the location, well Bovingdon isnt far away and that was a bomber base. As for Heathrow, I personally wouldnt build an airfield in a valley prone to fog! Stansted is a much better location for an airfield.
historymadd
02-01-2009, 16:46
Hi all
just had to board up the control tower (again always getting vandalised ) at raf abingon(dalton barracks) there is no cellar there
cheers
If I may make a comment. The term 'cellar' is being used to describe this lower room, even though the place in question is not underground, should not the term 'basement' be used instead.
Robin.
Sounds similar to the loft/attic issue
Richard Drew
03-01-2009, 15:22
http://www.atlantikwall.co.uk/atlantikwall/awall_use/Predannack05/pics/main05.jpg
Predannack has an above ground cellar!
canberra
04-01-2009, 16:56
It depends on topography and airfield lay out. The tower at Leuchars was built in 1960 and is very badly situated. It faces south so particuarly in winter youve got the sun in your face. It also has no sight of the ASPs.
Richard Drew
05-01-2009, 18:13
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn23/atlantikwall-photos/Airfields/PICT1760.jpg
One of the reasons for Yeovilton to have a new tower was (as well as age), to see all the airfield. Some years ago a new building was being completed and the control staff told the architect that it would obscure the runway. The architect new better, as they all do. I believe a jet was landing and came to a halt hidden from the tower. The first thing the tower saw was smoke rising.
The FTS and ASU airfields at Hullavington, Little Rissington, Shawbury and Ternhill were all built with Chief Flying Instructors Block 5740/36, as was the FTS at South Cerney. However Brize Norton was also built as a FTS and ASU at the same time, but appears not to have had a Chief Flying Instructors Block. All these airfields share a very similar layout, and most of the buildings are to the same pattern. I would have expected Brize to have had a CFIs Block.
Does anyone know if Brize was ever planned to have a CFI block which was never built. If it was never planned to have a CFIs block why not. Also what type of tower/watch office did Brize have originally, I would guess a Fort type 1959-34, but can any one confirm this.
Cheers
norwichpaul
11-01-2009, 10:54
Ah but it did, the site plan says 5745/36, the same set of drawings as 5740/36!
Thanks NP. I guessed that you would probably know the answer.
Every reference I have found about the CFI block only refers to the 5 airfields that still have one. No mention of Brize. I have seen some aerial pictures of Brize from around 1940 which shows a building in front of the centre hangar, but it was not possible to identify the type of building. That whole area is under concrete now, the apron next to the terminal building. I guess the CFI block disappeared when the Americans moved in and the current tower was built on the other side of the airfield.
Thanks again for the quick reply.
Derek
canberra
11-01-2009, 14:23
Havijg looked at the controltowers.co.uk website it states that only five towers to this design were built. Brize didnt have one built, my guess is that one wasnt built here due to the war starting.
norwichpaul
11-01-2009, 23:27
Well actually the official site plan c.1945 identifies drawing 5745/36 as the one for the WO so unless there is any other concrete evidence to the contary,then we must assume that the building was actually built!
Since it seems pretty certain Brize had a CFI block, it would be interesting to know if anyone has any pictures of it. It would also be interesting to know a bit about the history of it, and when it disappeared. Especially as most references don't refer to it at all.
norwichpaul
20-01-2009, 15:45
Delboy how did I know that would be your next question? But I agree as Canberra might be right (you cannot always go by whats on the plan) so a photo is the only way of proving it.
mawganmad
28-01-2009, 11:45
I would err on the side of it not being built (maybe forseen as a Bomber and ASU station by the time of completion?).
St Athan has buildiing designs shown on one plan that were clearly not built, and a more recent plan shows the different building design erected in its place
mawganmad
28-01-2009, 12:01
Arghhhh - Damn you moderators with too much time on your hands!!
I didn't realise all the tower threads had been merged.
I puposely kicked of a successfull thread on pictures of various Control Towers/Watch Offices designs so that we can click on it and see all the different tower designs quite easily. Like our own mini refernce guide similar to controltowers.co.uk.
It is now completely muddled up with other info about cellars etc, I wondered why I couldn't find it - arghhh!!!! :evil:
Can it be seperated, or started again? :|
Arghhhh - Damn you moderators with too much time on your hands!!
I didn't realise all the tower threads had been merged.
I puposely kicked of a successfull thread on pictures of various Control Towers/Watch Offices designs so that we can click on it and see all the different tower designs quite easily. Like our own mini refernce guide similar to controltowers.co.uk.
It is now completely muddled up with other info about cellars etc, I wondered why I couldn't find it - arghhh!!!! :evil:
Can it be seperated, or started again? :|
Yeah, that would have been me trying to tidy up the forum a bit yesterday!!! I was thinking about tidying up the hangar threads next!!!
It might be worth putting a picture thread on the audit forum, one tower picture per airfield, keep this as the discussion thread. What do you think? Fancy being in charge of it mawganmad?
mawganmad
28-01-2009, 14:37
Yeah, that would have been me trying to tidy up the forum a bit yesterday!!! I was thinking about tidying up the hangar threads next!!!
It might be worth putting a picture thread on the audit forum, one tower picture per airfield, keep this as the discussion thread. What do you think? Fancy being in charge of it mawganmad?
Good idea, I think the original intention was members to post at least one shot of each tower of an airfield they have visited, a couple of pictures if they have them to illustrate changes etc.
I can take the job on if you need someone to sort it - just let me know how!
Re thread merges, whilst I do see a need for the occasional spring clean, I think they can be a bad idea, especially on building type topics. I do see a need for it on the seperate airfields threads so as to bring all the airfields under their own unique threads - unhelpful whinge over!
I guess it is just a case of finding tower photos and putting them in one place. Should be easy enough. Make a start on the topic and if things need moving / changing drop me a PM and I'll see what I can do! Most photo url's you should be able to get by right clicking on the picture.
Point taken on the tidying!!!
mawganmad
29-01-2009, 10:01
I always had the impression Heath Row was intended for Transport Command use, and to have had a Very Heavy Bomber airfield in that location seemed somewhat odd.
It was intended all along to be the post-war civil airport for the country, but passed through parliament etc under the guise of a much needed military transportation base.
PNK and PB, I'm of the opinion that VHT didn't nescessarily mean (but included) pure transport aircraft types, but meant a large base for the transportation of big numbers of large aircraft.
ie St Mawgan (the only VHT completed as such, and a pattern for Heathrow) was built to handle and service large numbers of American and British aircraft arriving and departing from the UK, it had over 16,000 moves in one month in 1944. This include civil moves, even St Mawgan had a large and modern customs, censors, and security section within the SECO terminal. The runway was even envisaged to handle the projected B-36 which was some five years (eight years actual) away from service entry, for transit reasons not for operational deployment as bombers.
I hope I'm making sense here, but my take on VHT means Very Heavy Transport as being capable of handling many large aircraft being transited, and not a dedicated transport base like Lynham etc.
Disscuss!
More like Very Heavy Use then? I couldn't think of any aircraft that would fit the bill so that makes more sense. Having seen the plans for Heathrow drawn up in the late 1940's for extra runways north of the main road it would seem they did envisage heavier aircraft and more movements over 30 years before it was realised again!
mawganmad
29-01-2009, 21:17
Just seems more likely to me, lets face it Heathrow has been a building site all its life!
Just noticed in the pics that PB has posted that the mid level front windows have been bricked up, unusual as that is the met. level.
P Bellamy
30-01-2009, 02:13
I can't tell whether they've been bricked up, or are just hidden in the shadow of the balcony.
There does appear to be three darker rectangles where the windows should be though.
All the best,
PB
mawganmad
03-02-2009, 20:03
Excellent pics and keep them coming. It will be a really good tower reference for tower designs.
I was tasked by REF to resurect this thread and post up all the pics from the site, but my PC is playing up.
Be nice to add drawing numbers and dates taken so a timeline can be seen. I will try to post ones from the Footnote site as they are free to use.
Give it a few days and REF will delete these words as it says photo's only :) REF, I'll give until you until the 6th of Tholthorpe or I will delete it!
mawganmad
03-02-2009, 20:17
Agree with the above, when I'm able to and enough posts are up, the thread will probably be rearranged (say alphabetically) and with basic tower info.
This is an excellent thread thanks to everyone who has shared pics!
I see REF has already added his! I will have to dig out my control towers book. Can you rearrange posts of multiple pics?
Peter I have loads more to add still!! And you are right I'll be moving this discussion to the other thread!!!!
canberra
03-02-2009, 22:26
Just been reading this thread, someone makes a claim for St Mawgan having the oldest tower in use. Well what about Cosford? Also Marhams tower was built round about 46, cant be many on front line RAF bases thats older and still in use.
mawganmad
04-02-2009, 09:46
Canberra I made the claim on two grounds. I say 'full use', meaning it has (now had) full approach and visual rooms, met section and radar rooms, all being used as built. Secondly I class it as a full tower, rather than watch office.
Cosford is a watch office, and is the oldest as such in mil use, but is only FISO standard.
Now St Mawgans' tower is dissused then you are probably right about Marham.
I must admit I thought Cosford would have been the oldest tower in use as well, but I'm happy to be proved wrong!
What is FISO?
P Bellamy
05-02-2009, 01:18
FISO: Flight Information Service Officer, one stage down from Air Traffic Controller according to the CAA?
mawganmad
05-02-2009, 08:27
What is FISO?
Shame on you Richard, airfield expert not knowing FISO! I will let NP issue the beatings!
Just to clarify Cosford is the oldest watch office in operation (military anyway), read my definition for my Mawgan tower explanation.
Thanks Paul for explanation.
MM - when was I classed as an airfield expert???!!!
mawganmad
05-02-2009, 14:04
Well with me from when you helped start this forum lol.
BTW In the process of finding and collating all the tower pics on the f orum I have noticed that many of yours (and of other subjects) are no longer visible - are you aware of this?
Just a very basic explanation to what I meant.
St Mawgans VHT tower was built as a large tower with approach control, airfield control, and met.forecasting with all the rooms, offices, personnel, landing, radio, and lighting aids equipment needed. This required a SATCO, Officer, and NCO 'approach' and 'local' air traffic controllers, along with same position assistants and met. staff. The aforementioned set up existed from completion in '43 until closure in '08 day and night and all weathers. There were changes in kit and an expansion of responsibilities, Radar systems and local airspace control being two examples. This is what I meant by a 'full use' tower, and it was the oldest to stay working in that way. Now I would guess Marhams' VHB is the oldest.
Cosford tower is a 'local' only FISO standard tower, it dosen't work aircraft in the area or control aircraft into the airfield, it can only give clearance to land or take off and is advised of moves via land line systems. It would only operate during the day and in favourable weather. It wouldn't necesarily require a SATCO, and would only have a couple of 'local' controllers and a handful of assistants.
Thanks for the confirmation on the two towers, that clears things up alot.
All my photos are still on photobucket, but I thought I'd tidy the photobucket up as well, consequently I have broken some links! I am slowly working through putting them all back up online! The control tower photo thread will be fine though. I'll be putting a few more up shortly
canberra
05-02-2009, 18:07
Cosford is not (afaik) a FISO tower, it has qualified air traffic controllers and yes does have a SATCO.
As I said thats as far as I know I may be wrong.
And having made the claim for Marham, unless its got a new tower Edinburgh airports tower may be older than Marhams.
mawganmad
05-02-2009, 18:25
Jeez Canberra, I'm sure I specified a full military tower, Cosford is a 'local' watch office (I know it has qualified controllers, one of the W/Os from Mawgan was posted there, FISO is a CAA qualification BTW), and Edinburgh isn't military, I'm sure alot of the now civilian towers/watch offices are much older than Marham.
The whole point I made some months ago is lost now as St Mawgan is shut!
canberra
05-02-2009, 18:55
Yes I know Edinburgh isnt military (I served at Turnhouse) but I was making a point that there may be older towers in use.
And please calm down.
mawganmad
05-02-2009, 20:58
I suggest you read the posts more thoroughly first before commenting, and I am perfectly calm thank you.
mawganmad
07-02-2009, 11:02
Ye gads!! How to ruin the look of a tower!
At least they have preserved it I guess.
That doesnt look good for Bircham, temp fence = demolition?
Arcade Al
08-02-2009, 01:01
That doesnt look good for Nircham, temp fence = demolition?
It does look that way. :(
mawganmad
14-02-2009, 11:26
Tholthorpe and Zeals are perfect examples of how to sypathetically turn a watch office in to a house - perfect!
I'm assuming the Bottesford tower is much modified into the delightful art deco style we see it in now?
The Bottesford art-deco tower is a new build, the original tower is still there. It was built a couple years back (I think) as a memorial to the aircrew that were based there, I think it was Austrailian aircrew from memory. The tower was I think based on an Austrailian design. Can anyone confirm this for me?
I'm sure thats correct Rich.
Despite it not being original to Bottesford i thought i'd add it to the control tower thread to add to the variety anyway..oh..and a bit of 'glamour' as well lol!
Bottesfords original ww2 tower is in my earlier post in the tower section.
mawganmad
27-02-2009, 21:53
I've just spent time looking through the 'control towers - pictures only' thread, that must be surely the greatest resource of tower pictures either on the net or in print ever- well done and don't forget to keep adding!
I've still got a few more to put up! There is alot of others on the forum to that could do with adding to the thread.
Keep the Control Tower pictures coming - providing they are not already on there!!
mawganmad
27-02-2009, 22:22
As long as the pics are from different ages, shouldn't be too bad having multiples. Personally I think its best to post the pics and then have a major reorganisation of the thread after a while?
Like that 1950s Northolt tower pic, the ground floor is still there and was in use by ground radio. Anyone know tower type?
That tower at Lakenheath is massive!!
mawganmad
23-04-2009, 21:00
KingsCliffe Tower with me in the way 1988.
Very good, I can never beat the timed shutter release of my camera! :)
norwichpaul
23-04-2009, 22:01
Is that not North Creake? (the second from last) not Hethel
airfields man
23-04-2009, 22:06
I've never been to North Creake, It's Definately Hethel. 1988.
airfields man
23-04-2009, 22:31
Just been checking through some other photographs/Books etc, You may be right? Though it's been in my Hethel album for 20 years.....?? I'll search some more.
woodster
23-04-2009, 22:32
I've never been to North Creake, It's Definately Hethel. 1988.
have to agree with norwichpaul definatly North creake!!
It is North Creake, I have photographed both.
Compare HETHEL (http://airfields.fotopic.net/hethel) with NORTH CREAKE (http://airfields.fotopic.net/northcreake) on my photos here.
airfields man
24-04-2009, 18:40
Sorry everyone, A total memory loss of ever going to North Creake, Though I've just been reminded by a lady I know that we did call there in 1998 while trying to find her old school teacher. Thats why !!! It wasn't a proper Airfield search. So it's only eleven years that photograph has been in the wrong folder !!
Have those towers been turned into houses?
woodster
15-06-2009, 16:18
Control Towers - Photos only! TANGMERE Photos, page 9
Sad to see housing encroaching onto the airfield,would think its just a matter of time before the tower is torched or bulldozed,glad you took these photos before that happens!!
norwichpaul
15-06-2009, 17:18
Tangmere - Someone took the trouble to sand blast those bricks in the ground floor windows as they are painted green in 2001 yet in 2008 they are natural colour?
Seletar and Trincomalee look familiar designs.
I assume Seletar was in enemy hands at some point, so does this make it unique?
norwichpaul
25-11-2009, 21:15
Yes its amazing to think that the poor old watch office with tower was used by those Japanese chaps during their campaign in Singapore and they didn't flatten it.
Out Of Trim
18-03-2010, 21:32
It is and is a range control tower which works in conjucton with the two sighting towers. Also talks to the aircraf operating on the range for clearences, weather and local information.
Its one of the most hideos towers I have ever been in.
If you think that one was hideous, you should have seen the one it replaced!
It was heaven to work in after the old one; now demolished. The New Control Tower at Pembrey Sands opened around 1985. I have some prints of it when new and a couple of the old one that need to be scanned first.
I'd be interested in seeing pics the old Pembrey Sands range tower.
MSgtWilliamsUSAFRet
07-01-2011, 03:35
I recently visited the US Air Force museum at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio. While there I discovered the following display:
http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/Joycejack/8AFTower-USAirForceMuseumW-PAFBOhio-a.jpg
After I arrived home I did a Google search for 8AF Control Towers and found the following image:
http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx303/Joycejack/8AFTowerFarmlinghamSuffolkGB.jpg
Notice the similarity.
Arcade Al
07-01-2011, 11:57
I recently visited the US Air Force museum at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio. While there I discovered the following display:
[IMAGE
After I arrived home I did a Google search for 8AF Control Towers and found the following image:
[IMAGE]
Notice the similarity.
Yes, the Wright-Patterson tower is a reproduction built from original plans. There is a bit here:
http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?2823-Wright-Patterson-Air-Force-Base-Dayton-Ohio/page4
Dunkeswell
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/ricasso_2008/2009_0109dowdswellsouthrop0006.jpg
upottery
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/ricasso_2008/upottery006.jpg
Arcade Al
07-01-2011, 14:55
Dunkeswell doesn't look too promising with that site fencing around it... hopefully not a demo job planned!
It would be a shame seeing as it has obviously been reasonably well looked after in the recent past.
This was a couple of years ago,haven't been back since, I'm hoping someone local will post on here to say all is well!
Arcade Al
07-01-2011, 18:18
This was a couple of years ago,haven't been back since, I'm hoping someone local will post on here to say all is well!
I assume from this link that all is well, I hope so anyway as it's G2 listed!
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-489828-buildings-25-watch-office-22-fire-tender
canberra
07-01-2011, 19:34
So when did watch offices become control towers? In the RAF the shift on duty is still (Im guessing it still is!) called the watch and the log book is called the watch log. And the senior assistant on duty is called the IC the watch, and boy does he or she get some grief, I speak from experience!
Able Mabel
22-01-2011, 11:14
So when did watch offices become control towers? In the RAF the shift on duty is still (Im guessing it still is!) called the watch and the log book is called the watch log. And the senior assistant on duty is called the IC the watch, and boy does he or she get some grief, I speak from experience!
When the Americans arrived. They also changed alot of the R/T procedure !!!!
Between Hunsdons watch office and the crash tender shed, there is a building on the plans as First Aid Post and BK Boiler Shelter.
What did BK stand for, and why was the Boiler part referred to as a shelter ?
Gypsymoth
15-12-2011, 10:44
I've seen 17658/40 for Ibsley with the replacement building as 518/40...this is the present tower which has the same number as others (Shipdham, eg) but as Ibsley is all concrete would the 518/40 cover it?
Carnaby (on here) wrote the airfield lighting chapter in 'Paul Francis' book on control towers. It was written back in 1993 and is still the best there is on the subject (well I would say that wouldn't I).
Being an airfield lighting and controls tech, I'd be interested in reading that chapter.
Between Hunsdons watch office and the crash tender shed, there is a building on the plans as First Aid Post and BK Boiler Shelter.
What did BK stand for, and why was the Boiler part referred to as a shelter ?
sorry to quote myself, but can anyone answer?
hi everyone does anyone have a pic of RAF BALDERTON control tower just cant seem to find a copy from anywere ? hope you can help . thanks
mawganmad
05-01-2012, 09:16
Between Hunsdons watch office and the crash tender shed, there is a building on the plans as [B]First Aid Post and BK Boiler Shelter
This is going to sound stupid, but it's not FL Trailer Shelter is it?
The only other thing I can think of is that Mawgan had a Boiler House just across from the tower, could it be something like that?
spitfireman
10-01-2012, 11:41
Would that be the building I would sometimes destroy restricted/secret waste in 1981/2?
Dr_Bishop
10-01-2012, 11:51
So when did watch offices become control towers? In the RAF the shift on duty is still (Im guessing it still is!) called the watch and the log book is called the watch log. And the senior assistant on duty is called the IC the watch, and boy does he or she get some grief, I speak from experience!
Tell me about it!
Used to sign of watch when handing over to the next controller in local, remember the HOW/TOW.
At the end of flying - Closing Watch/Log...
As for the name change from Watch Offices to Control Towers, probably came into being after WW2, when Air Traffic became more professional and had more kit installed.
it's not FL Trailer Shelter is it?
Nope MM, thats the other side of the watch office.
Brothmark
21-02-2012, 23:53
Control Towers that are considered listed by English Heritage
http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/results.aspx
http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/18061/2357161230044116616S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2357161230044116616SLCIpm)
Watch Offices that are listed
http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/results.aspx
Hi Brothmark,
I am afraid these links did not work for me (only led me to the 'search' section of the EH website). I have always wanted to see lists of exactly which British airfield buildings are Listed (or sometimes Scheduled) but no-one seems to have compiled any so far - but I do recommend the excellent independent website http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk which publishes (with EH approval) the official descriptions of all Listed buildings as well as photos and date of Listing. Visitors to the site are also encouraged to add photos and comments too.
Regards,
Scapa
Hi Brothmark,
I am afraid these links did not work for me (only led me to the 'search' section of the EH website). I have always wanted to see lists of exactly which British airfield buildings are Listed (or sometimes Scheduled) but no-one seems to have compiled any so far - but I do recommend the excellent independent website http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk which publishes (with EH approval) the official descriptions of all Listed buildings as well as photos and date of Listing. Visitors to the site are also encouraged to add photos and comments too.
Regards,
Scapa
Unfortunately that site allows uploading of photos but makes no effort to verify them. When told that photos don't show the listed entry they do not remove them
Hi Brothmark what a briliant picture . Where is it at ?
airfields man
08-04-2012, 12:38
Hi Brothmark what a briliant picture . Where is it at ?
94th BG at Bury St Edmunds [Rougham] Suffolk. :grin:
Thanks airfields man i do have transperancies of the tower back in the Seventies . Then itwas surounded by trees & painted pinkish .
No wonder i did not recognise the picture also ther was no memorial there back then .
airfields man
09-04-2012, 13:30
Thanks airfields man i do have transperancies of the tower back in the Seventies . Then itwas surounded by trees & painted pinkish .
No wonder i did not recognise the picture also ther was no memorial there back then .
Hi Bomber, I have posted some photographs of the tower that we took during the mid 80s, as you say it was painted a pinkish colour then, curtains in the window too. Would like to see your 70s photographs though.
Hi airfields man i will try & scan my transperansies on to a disk & ask Steve to post them up .
It may take a while but i promise i will get them done .
PeterPease
28-04-2013, 16:51
Hi chaps!
Just joined the forum and I have to say it looks like an invaluable information source.
I'm part of a group which is restoring the control tower at RAF Ballyhalbert, the easternmost point of Northern Ireland. We have a Watch Office with Met Section 518/40 type building, which we intend to fully restore and
run as a museum/community resource.
RAF Ballyhalbert was an OTU, with a Polish Spitfire squadron, as well as being a RNAS and USAF base. It was
used to provide air cover for the nearby city of Belfast as well as convoy protection. Not a front line station by any means, but it did it's bit and hosted pilots from SA, NZ and America, as well as the Poles, who pranged a lot and are well represented in local graveyards.
I look forward to reading up on the site and will have questions for you in due course.
Best regards, Pete
Hi Pete & welcome to the forum. It sounds like you have aworthwhile progect on the go .It would be lovely to see any pictures you take in restoring the tower to show how you are progresing ." Good luck with your progect "
Regards ,
Bomber.
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