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ColinBa
31-10-2010, 13:54
Found this http://www.oldairfields.fotopic.net/c1236454.html

with this oral

http://www.bbc.co.uk/print/ww2peopleswar/stories/41/a2894141.shtml

Carnaby
31-10-2010, 14:27
Colin, this started life as 220MU - a Reserve Ammunition Depot for the RAF. I suspect the number was an early allocation as 220MU is generally associated with the Barrack and Clothing Depot at Dumfries (previously 'H' MU).

(In a similar manner another USAAF depot, Sharnbrook had been RAF 221MU, which was then allocated to Salford, another BCD, previously 'R' MU.)

The name for the depot was Wortley - I can't find any plans of the storage areas, but Hendon has 1955 plans of Scout Dyke (SDK/1773 and SDK/1775).

Station 581 - 1912 Ordnance Ammunition Company, 2002 Ordnance Ammunition Company.

The pics in your first link are good, but Naughty Noel has referred to Maycrete Huts :roll:. The accommodation and MT site was to the north of the road, and included tents. HQ and officers accommodation was south of the road.

Most of the site has now been cleared. Location (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.53609285241684&lon=-1.6140568256378174&gz=18&oz=10&gt=1) (Wrong! - see below)

Graham

PETERTHEEATER
01-11-2010, 08:02
I have the site here from the road to the railway (and opposite adjacent to the reservoir)

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.541110720479715&lon=-1.6442370414733887&gz=16&oz=7&gt=1

Main entrance with surviving building:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Penistone,+Sheffield,+United+Kingdom&sll=50.150836,-5.05193&sspn=0.006655,0.013797&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Penistone,+Sheffield,+Barnsley,+United+Kingd om&ll=53.541047,-1.646919&spn=0.002767,0.013797&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.541045,-1.646924&panoid=cA0RdxxBpZrKjekJ6a5tqQ&cbp=11,29.27,,0,5.56

Carnaby
01-11-2010, 14:06
I have the site here...
Absolutely right, Peter. I was about a mile out with my location - didn't look closely enough at my Hendon Plan. Strangely the layout of my guess fits in with the real one on both sides of the road. I was surprised that all the original buildings seemed to have disappeared.

Your surviving building is the Guard House and Fire Party hut SDK/1723 TBC. Note that the adjacent plot (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.541196790537654&lon=-1.6463546454906464&gz=21&oz=10&gt=1), bungalow and outbuildings, between the road and the long green hedge, were not part of the camp, but were totally surrounded by the military site. Must have been fun for the owner!

The Pump House should be in this wood (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.53930958467681&lon=-1.6448003053665161&gz=19&oz=10&gt=1). The sewage complex (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.53778484454325&lon=-1.6437837637150379&gz=19&oz=9&gt=1) was military.

To the south of the A629 is the sole survivor, Depot Office (http://goo.gl/maps/Y8xo) (TBC), next to the road and shielded by trees. A few hundred yards up this road again on the left at Lakeside View was the Penistone Isolation Hospital, now a small housing estate.

I note all site and building plans have local drawing numbers (SDK/xxx) Wonder why?

Graham

PETERTHEEATER
02-11-2010, 06:43
I note all site and building plans have local drawing numbers (SDK/xxx) Wonder why?

I notice this on other remote sites usually in the Scottish Islands. I think that it was left to the site user authority to decide what structures they needed and that they used local contractors to draw up the plans and carry out the work. Funding, presumably, came from higher authority.

By the way; does the site plan show any railhead, a siding or similar, just to the north east at the 'bottom' of the main site?

Carnaby
02-11-2010, 12:31
By the way; does the site plan show any railhead, a siding or similar, just to the north east at the 'bottom' of the main site?

No, I note that Wortley is some distance from Scout Dyke. The former had a railway station at the time Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wortley_railway_station).

There is a possibility here (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.54379315502193&lon=-1.6418471932411194&gz=19&oz=10&gt=1)? Looks like something crossed the track.

My old railway book shows the only line in the area was the Huddersfield to Sheffield line, and local stations were, from the north: Denby Dale (passes close to Scout Dyke), Penistone, Thurgoland, Wortley, Deepcar.

Found some other snippets:
http://sites.google.com/site/wortleywalledgarden/Home/history/a-brief-history-of-wortley-hall
During World War II Wortley Hall was occupied by US servicemen, mostly from the US Army Air Force (USAAF). Detachments stationed at Wortley appear to have been mostly drawn from Ordnance and Quartermaster units and were possibly involved in the operation of the nearby ammunition depots at Scout Dike and Grenoside.

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-424893.html
Does anyone know anything about the american servicemen stationed at Wortley Hall during WWII? The troops were here to service a bomb depot - probably the ammunition dump formerly on the site of Grenoside Crematorium.

I can't remember the exact year but it was in the 40's. Word got around that American troops were working on a bomb site somewhere down toward Spital Hill, bottom end of Andover Street.

Grenoside appear to be here (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.43615932490404&lon=-1.508021179192416&gz=16&oz=9&gt=1).

Also found an interesting book, now posted under Research Material. Link (http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?5535-Book-The-Ordnance-Department-on-beachhead-and-battlefront&p=58835#post58835)

Graham

PETERTHEEATER
03-11-2010, 09:35
Thanks, but we agree that Wortley and Scouts Dike are the same site? Wortley Hall would have been the administration site?

Carnaby
03-11-2010, 14:34
Thanks, but we agree that Wortley and Scouts Dike are the same site? Wortley Hall would have been the administration site?
Yes and the hall could have been the admin site. Scouts Dyke had a Depot HQ, and a separate Depot Office building, but on reflection that's probably not enough.

Graham

Carnaby
24-04-2011, 12:52
A visit in April 2011 confirmed that just about everything had been demolished except:

Bdg 61 - Guard House & Fire Party Hut
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/DSCN0501a.jpg

Bdg 67- Depot Offices
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/DSCN0510a.jpg

Bdg 36 - Swimming Bath
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/DSCN0514.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/DSCN0515.jpg

Sewage Works
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/grahamcrisp/DSCN0518.jpg

Most of the site was accommodation (for officers and EMs), and vehicle maintenance. ( 'EM' = 'Enlisted Men', an American term ??)

NJR
24-04-2011, 21:10
Graham, where's the baths?

PETERTHEEATER
25-04-2011, 06:58
That is here. I thought it was a Static Water Tank!

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.5404237476338&lon=-1.6480229794979095&gz=20&oz=8&gt=1

Richard Flagg
25-04-2011, 09:35
That is here. I thought it was a Static Water Tank!

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.5404237476338&lon=-1.6480229794979095&gz=20&oz=8&gt=1

I thought that looked like a shooting range when I saw it on GE last night!!

Carnaby
25-04-2011, 09:46
Correct, Peter. On my visit I initially assumed it was post WWII - part of the Activity Centre. One of the adjacent huts belongs to the fishing club and a local told me it was definitely extant in the early fifties. Hence I photographed it, then later discovered it on the RSP.

All the buildings to the south-east of the reservoir are private property. Access to the sewage works (operational) is via a public footpath further down the B6462.
http://goo.gl/maps/c13R

CDP
05-09-2011, 01:12
Also to throw this into the mix, I did some survey work a few years ago focussing on nearby Wharncliffe Heath and Chase. Chatting to the then tenant farmer (who may have passed on since - he was getting on a bit at the time!) clearly remembered bombs being kept in open storage into 1944 and beyond. The Chase boundary wall had gaps knocked into it (the repairs are visible today) to allow access. Grenoside (Carnaby's link post #6) is some distance from Scout Dike, nearer to Wharncliffe and Wortley to be fair.

Wharncliffe Chase is here (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.43615932490404&lon=-1.508021179192416&gz=16&oz=9&gt=1) and the previously mentioned Grenoside site is just to the SSE of it, at the junction of Skew Hill/Oughtibridge La (locally known as Jawbone Hill), with some odd remains in the field on the junction (munitions dump, as previously cited in other references?). There is a local WD concrete marker post, with War Department arrow, next to a nearby footpath.

The Skew Hill remains. WD marker post (sorry, no pic!) is behind the trees to the left of the shot.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/002-3.jpg

Overlooking the Grenoside Crematorium with Sheffield in the distance
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/001-4.jpg

Any ideas welcome but I don't think we'll be surprised if it's not military for some reason (yes, the brickwork is stretcher and not flemish bond! That was noted.).

Chris

PETERTHEEATER
05-09-2011, 07:52
A 1971 2500 scale OS Map shows it as 'Tank'

CDP
05-09-2011, 15:18
A 1971 2500 scale OS Map shows it as 'Tank'

Not the tracked kind. Looking as though nothing military then? Anecdotally it's supposed to be but that's no guarantee!

Edit - first appears (along with a "Depot", now the site of the crematorium) on the 53-56 series of OS maps.

Better stop now - thread creep. Sorry!

Chris

kebecker
05-09-2011, 16:14
I tend to agree, not military. A lot of effort has gone into forming the concrete such that the profile is not square. This is odd, my immeadiate thought was agricultural, you round edges to stop cattle injuring themselves, but this is probably total wotsits! Any idea what the pipeline crossing the field carries?

Carnaby
01-09-2012, 14:31
Colin Barber has obtained an interesting document regarding visits by Porton scientists in July and September 1946 to inspect the remaining stocks of USAAF HE and chemical weapons at two Wortley subsites. It was estimated that there were stocks located along 60 miles of roadway.

Ewden Height had 4,323 off 1,000-lb bombs filled PI and CC. It was HERE (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.475122358905146&lon=-1.6482040184304476&gz=16&oz=9&gt=1) .The weapons were stored alongside the narrow roads in 5 ft high piles, and also 10-20 yards back on the heather.

Shepley had 15,858 off 1,000-lb bombs filled AC, PI, CC and CG, plus 667 off 600-lb bombs filled CC and CG. (AC is Hydrogen Cyanide, CG is Phosgene, what are PI and CC?)

This site is somewhere around HERE (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.566629616667534&lon=-1.722731229726829&gz=14&oz=8&gt=1) and was described as 'narrow metalled roads in the middle of farmland.

Because of the 'open' nature of Ewden it was estimated that leaking chemical weapons would not present a serious issue given the normal wind direction. This was not the case at Shepley where problem weapons would have to be removed for decontamination. The bottom line was that all weapons should be disposed of at sea.

In the short term the ranges at Midhope Moor (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.48790509760335&lon=-1.6829681396484375&gz=16&oz=9&gt=1) might be suitable for decontamination / disposal.

See also http://www.airfieldarchaeology.co.uk/midhope-moors-avfr.html

More: http://everythingoutdoors.co.uk/the-shooting-ranges-around-langsett-and-midhope-reservoirs/

ColinBa
01-09-2012, 21:18
CC = Cyanogen Chloride

Carnaby
01-09-2012, 23:33
CC = Cyanogen Chloride
Every source I have (including SIPRI and Jane's) has 'CK' as Cyanogen Chloride. However I suspect that it may be a misprint (though used several times) as the report mentions 'the CK weapons' later (even though the inventory says there weren't any!). Very confusing.

I note that 'AC' or Hydrogen Cyanide was manufactured abroad as 'Zyklon-B'.

PETERTHEEATER
02-09-2012, 08:48
A post-war US Army report list CC and CK both as Cyanogen Chloride but I think that the two were slightly different forms hence the two codes. The code PI may also be a typo. I have scanned several documents but not found that code.

Zyklon B is infamous as the agent used in the gas chambers of Nazi run extermination camps.

ColinBa
02-09-2012, 11:21
Every source I have (including SIPRI and Jane's) has 'CK' as Cyanogen Chloride. However I suspect that it may be a misprint (though used several times) as the report mentions 'the CK weapons' later (even though the inventory says there weren't any!). Very confusing.
From the definitive Chemical Warfare in Australia Appendix B. British Code Symbol=CK, American Code Symbol New=CK, Old=CC. Cyanogen Chloride, recently code symbol changed from CC to CK to avoid confusion with CG.

Carnaby
02-09-2012, 12:06
Shepley... was described as 'narrow metalled roads in the middle of farmland.
They weren't kidding !
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.570912,-1.704286&spn=0.004989,0.016512&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.570988,-1.704751&panoid=rwF1jPmP1UYL-l7Wq4BFjA&cbp=12,98.59,,0,15.54

Good verges for stacking weapons.

PETERTHEEATER
03-09-2012, 06:25
From the definitive Chemical Warfare in Australia Appendix B. British Code Symbol=CK, American Code Symbol New=CK, Old=CC. Cyanogen Chloride, recently code symbol changed from CC to CK to avoid confusion with CG.

Thanks and noted. That clears that up!

PETERTHEEATER
03-09-2012, 06:36
They weren't kidding !
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.570912,-1.704286&spn=0.004989,0.016512&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.570988,-1.704751&panoid=rwF1jPmP1UYL-l7Wq4BFjA&cbp=12,98.59,,0,15.54



Good verges for stacking weapons.

Great minds think alike! I looked at some old maps for a site conveniently accessible from Scout Dyke and noticed those two roads marked as tracks yet shown as quite wide. It's only when you look at the actual you see the shoulders (verges). But, assuming the dry stone walling existed at the time why were they set so wide of the track? Reduces available land.

redmist
09-12-2012, 15:21
Great minds think alike! I looked at some old maps for a site conveniently accessible from Scout Dyke and noticed those two roads marked as tracks yet shown as quite wide. It's only when you look at the actual you see the shoulders (verges). But, assuming the dry stone walling existed at the time why were they set so wide of the track? Reduces available land.

Greetings chaps. Signed up to butt in on your thread. Hope you don't mind. I am very local to the area you are discussing and I have had an interest in the site for quite a while. Locally information was, until relatively recently, very difficult to obtain. My old fella, now long departed, told me when I was a nipper that during the war none of the area was accessible by road without a pass. Because of his work he had one and told me of the piles of bombs stacked by the sides of the roads he saw as he travelled around. The roads are traditionally/historically wide between the stone walls as they were wide before the 'enclosure' walls were there. Pre-metalled roads got pretty muddy so they just used to use the strip oto the side and when that got muddy the used the other side. When that got muddy the middle might have dried out and so they reverted to that and so on. So there is no significance in the width of the strip, the roads were just that wide before tarmac. A pal of mine is the caretaker at the Activity centre now there and post war it was an activity centre for the local education authority. Loads of local kids slept in the original nissen huts that became the first camp until it was removed in the 60's and the first 'new' building built. Very interested to learn about the chemical weapons there, that was new to me today, thanks! Does anyone have any unit identification for the Black US troops who were there, or have I missed that somewhere? If you have any q's about the geography I will happily try and help. BTW the railway runs pretty much adjecent to the site.

redmist
01-01-2013, 21:07
I was out and about in the vicinity today so I thought I would follow up on the Shepley part of this thread.

There are plenty of suitable wide flatish fields in the area with the 'metalled roads' refered to. What there also is is a 'road to nowhere' that stretches out across the side of some fields but has no obvious agricultural use. Maybe this was put in during the period?

11018

The area has been extenisvely quarried and worked for minerals so some of the features I found I accept could quite possibly be associated with those activities rather than the weapons store. However I am intrigued by a number of square structures that are dotted about the area. Has anyone come across anything similar on other sites? The only thing that I thought they might be for, if they are from the facility, was isolating items for some reason. But they could just as easily be safety walls/ ventilation around old mineshafts. They are not all of the same height or build materials but share a similar floor area and all seem to be square(ish) and open at the top.

11019
11020
11021
11022

Also visible on GE are what appears to be two areas of hardstanding. Only one of them is accessible on the ground. Again they could be from another activity.

11023

I will leave it to those with a little more expertise than myself to draw any firm conclusions.

PETERTHEEATER
02-01-2013, 21:25
Thanks for the explanation for the road widths, local knowledge fills in the blanks again!

Looking at old OS map coverage, a number of indicators show disused well pump houses that are probably the brick structures in your images. Perhaps they have been turned into bat refuges.

redmist
02-01-2013, 23:13
Here is an overview of the site with the positions of the towers etc shown. Just in the interests of elimination would you be willing to check against your old OS map to see if they match the pump positions? It seems a plausible explanation for them, but it is worth noting that the towers are not a common feature across the rest of the region. OK, I have not studied a multitude of other fields on GE but the only other site, in the area, I have come across so far that has them also has possible military connections - although this site would not come under the interests of the forum.

11025

Redmat
11-01-2013, 21:29
Hi
I am new to the forum but came across this thread whilst searching for something else a couple of months ago. I grew up in Birdsedge and my parent's generation had many memories of the military activity in the area. I do not think any of the features in the recent photographs have wartime origins. However, to answer a question, the bombs were stored on areas of hardstanding at the sides of some of the roads. These were terraced to form level stacking areas on steeper sections of the lanes. After 70 years, the pads are overgrown and have been eroded by roadside cabling and drainage activities in places. Much is no longer visible, some look like passing places. This GE shot of Broadstone lane shows the hardstanding areas at regular intervals at both sides of the road. From the ground, the layout is not at all obvious.
.11110

PETERTHEEATER
12-01-2013, 06:10
redmist, sorry for my late reply. I had a look at old maps and some, but not all, the 'tower' positions are former wells. I assume that these have been walled in for safety but left uncapped to give refuge to bats and other wildlife. There were many 'springs' and 'wells' in the area.

Redmat, thanks for your input that confirms bomb storage in that area. Do you know if roadside storage was used to the north of Shepley too?

ColinBa
12-01-2013, 12:44
Does anyone have any unit identification for the Black US troops who were there, or have I missed that somewhere? If you have any q's about the geography I will happily try and help. BTW the railway runs pretty much adjecent to the site.
On 31 December 1943 they were 1912 Ordnance ammunition Company and 2104 Quartermaster Company Truck Aviation

redmist
12-01-2013, 23:51
Thanks for the responses and input gents. It is excellent that there is a result regarding some of the actual locations. For me the jury is still out regarding what the 'towers' actually are, but these particular ones seem not to have a military origin. I'm glad that resurrecting the thread has achieved some solid info.

Regarding a much earlier post that mentions the pipeline at Grenoside, marked by the white sections of fence that look a little like styles in the hedgerow. They are pretty common in this area and mark the, originally secret?, fuel distribution pipeline network. The markers helped with keeping a visual check on the ground for leaks along the line of it. Conducted in later years from a helecopter. Maybe there is an official name for it? According to what I understand, it was put in during the war to ensure supplies got around the country. There was a pumping centre for it at Oxspring, near Penistone, that later became a Conoco storage depot and the pipeline remained in use for many years after the war. The pump/storage facility was very close to the bomb dumps, and was adjacent to the Huddersfield /Sheffield rail line and, certainly post war, had a dedicated rail fuel receiving/distribution facility. I have often wondered if the original rail site served as a rail head for the bomb dumps also, but that is pure speculation on my part with no research done in to it.

PETERTHEEATER
13-01-2013, 06:41
The Oxspring fuel depot was linked to the GPSS (Government Pipeline & Storage System) but has been 'capped' and under Care & Maintenance for many years. It is very unlikely that this would have been used as a combined fuel/munitions railhead due to Explosive Regulations.

redmist
13-01-2013, 15:30
Thanks for that, won't bother spending any time looking in that point then :-)

Redmat
13-01-2013, 21:43
PETER
As far as I am aware, although I stand to be corrected, the storage area did not extend any further North than the end of Birdsedge Lane. Part way up the lane, in the area I have shaded red on the attached map, there used to be a brick built sentry box and a couple of Nissen Huts. It is said that there was a barrier across the road here to control access into the area. I have never been given the impression that the security was very severe or aggressive. Kids walked to school every day and farmers got on with their work. Locals were allowed to pass through without any checks once they were recognised by the troops. In the village of Birdsedge an empty textile mill was used for munitions storage but whether this enterprise was linked to Scout Dyke I do not know.

REDMIST
I believe that Denby Dale goods yard was used as a railhead and also Penistone. In the past, Penistone had a goods yard and quite extensive sidings.

11115

Redmat
13-01-2013, 22:04
One wartime structure that still remains close to the bomb storage area is this bunker. It has always been said that it formed part of a decoy station. There are bases for bomb stacks at the other end of Brown's Edge Lane a few hundred yards away so it seems unlikely that both features were in operation at the same time. I would be interested to hear what others on the forum think, or indeed know.

11116

Alastair
13-01-2013, 22:25
Is the yard wall on the far side from the road contemporary with the buildings?

P Bellamy
14-01-2013, 02:02
Images of US Army Ordnance Depot O-695 Wortley from 1943
(Apologies for the poor quality, but these have been recovered from microfilm)

Depot Area showing railheads and camp:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD1_zpsf61b37c8.jpg

Depot Headquarters, Scout Dyke Camp:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD4_zps64096b38.jpg

Commanding Officer and Staff
Major A N Bray
Lt. W A Eadie Jr.
Lt. N J Connor
Lt. E C Glass
Lt. J J LaPointe
Lt. G L Taylor
Lt. W G Pfiel Jr.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD9_zps7a2e484b.jpg

Enlisted Men's Quarters at Scout Dyke Camp:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD11_zpsbb691002.jpg

Automotive Repair Facility, operated by the 3411th Ordnance Medium Maint. Coy.:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD7_zps35c44373.jpg

(This appears to be Penney's Garage on Sheffield Road, Penistone.)

P Bellamy
14-01-2013, 02:14
Unloading at Shepley railhead.
Hyster crane placing a pair of 2000lb GP bombs into a Studebaker truck:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD3_zpsc97e82b9.jpg

Members of the 859th Engineer Aviation Battalion, C Company, transferring 20mm ammunition from wagon to truck:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD5_zps34073649.jpg

Unloading bombs from truck to open storage with Neal crane:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD6_zps0f6522d7.jpg

Unloading truck with 60cwt Jones crane:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD2_zps9c573480.jpg

Open storage on roadside verges, 2000lb bombs:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD15_zps96fde4a3.jpg

P Bellamy
14-01-2013, 02:25
Open storage on roadside verges, 1000lb SAP bombs:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD12_zpsb2d2218f.jpg

Open storage on roadside verges, 40-ton stacks of 4000lb GP bombs.
Major Bray and Major Peretti for scale:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD13_zps3fbc9bf7.jpg

4000lb GP bombs on roadside hardstanding:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD8_zps71f98b25.jpg

4000lb and 500lb bombs on roadside hardstandings:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD17_zps9513bf9b.jpg

500lb GP bombs on hardstandings.
Tarpaulin-covered stacks of crated fins as traverses:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD16_zpse1cc5618.jpg

Nissen pyrotechnics stores:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k227/ramc181/Wortley/WOD14_zps85bf6688.jpg

All the best,
PB

redmist
14-01-2013, 10:58
Excellent material gents!!! I shall have to nip back up some time and get some 'then and now' scenes.

Is there any suggestion of where the Nissen huts might have been specifically located?

PETERTHEEATER
15-01-2013, 11:42
Thanks Paul. I had a quick look but no time to follow up!

Redmat
17-01-2013, 20:31
Many thanks-great pictures.

Redmat
17-01-2013, 20:55
Is the yard wall on the far side from the road contemporary with the buildings?
Alastair- I don't know the answer to that, but from another angle, the wall looks like it might be more to do with sheep than WW2.
11154

tigger
17-01-2013, 21:23
One wartime structure that still remains close to the bomb storage area is this bunker. It has always been said that it formed part of a decoy station. There are bases for bomb stacks at the other end of Brown's Edge Lane a few hundred yards away so it seems unlikely that both features were in operation at the same time. I would be interested to hear what others on the forum think, or indeed know.

It is the decoy control bunker for SF23

PETERTHEEATER
18-01-2013, 08:59
Post #39 sketchmap indicates that Shepley, Thurgoland and Wortley were designated railheads. Shepley and Wortley both had goods yards and road access but Thurgoland, from what I can find, did not have a railway station. The original 'halt' opened and closed in less than two years in the mid1800s.
Why have a second railhead so close to Wortley?

redmist
18-01-2013, 11:57
If we are to take the map as being reasonably accurate, which it is as far as the location of Shepley and Wortley stations, then the suggested location of the Thurgoland railhead does not seem to be at the location of the original Thurgoland 'halt', which I believe was at the other end of the tunnel at Spring House. But interestingly seems to be more at the site of the GPPS siding at Blackmoor/Oxspring. So maybe, pure speculation, the siding did have a shared 'temporary/ emergency/ 'for if' status? Not in regular usage by the bomb storage but it could be used if for some reason it needed to be? I understand and accept the point previously made about the danger of such action and I personally don't know enough about how any regulations might have been applied in a wartime situation to make any comment on such. But I can read a map :-).

Redmat
19-01-2013, 21:20
As redmist suggests, comparing the posted map with the road layout on an OS map suggests that the Blackmoor fuel storage depot would be very close to the Thurgoland railhead if the map is accurate. There were, however, sidings at Spring House next to the Cote Lane bridge, Thurgoland. These were only about a mile from Wortley Station- establishing another railhead here does not make immediate sense. My earlier thoughts regarding the use of Denby Dale and Penistone Stations do not appear to be borne out by the evidence. One of the pitfalls of oral history I guess.

PETERTHEEATER
20-01-2013, 09:30
I can't recall if the following site was discussed. My apology to Colin Barber in that he provided me the information but I can't locate the specific on my PC so here is a summary:

Ewden Height subsite

Colin Barber has obtained an interesting document regarding visits by Porton scientists in July and September 1946 to inspect the remaining stocks of USAAF HE and chemical weapons at two Wortley subsites. It was estimated that there were stocks located along 60 miles of roadway.

Ewden Height had 4,323 off 1,000-lb bombs filled PI and CC.The weapons were stored alongside the narrow roads in 5 ft high piles, and also 10-20 yards back on the heather.

The Ewden area was served by a railway that was built circa 1924 to haul away the spoil from the creation of two reservoirs,Broomhead and More Hall. The branch was connected to the north/south mainline as shown on this map:

http://www.stocksbridgehs.co.uk/collection/archive/railways/ewden-rc-documentation/erdo001_1746/

The point being that munitions could have been transported to Ewden Heights area by rail with connections through Wortley, Thurgoland and Shepley.

Carnaby
20-01-2013, 12:10
There is an interesting structure at Ewden HERE (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.478025362397446&lon=-1.6604134440422058&gz=19&oz=8&gt=1), though my feeling is it has nothing to do with the depot.

Redmat
20-01-2013, 13:38
Carnaby
The structure appears to be connected with Midhope Range. More info here. http://www.airfieldarchaeology.co.uk/midhope-moors-avfr.html
The Woodhead MRT has recently obtained a lottery grant to research the history of the range. http://woodheadmrt.org/2012/11/22/midhope-at-war/ I attended a small but interesting exhibition on the project late last year and was given to understand that the project would also embrace Scout Dyke and the munitions dump, indeed some material was on display. Hopefully, new information will surface.

Peter
I have had a look at Bowtell's "Reservoir Railways of Manchester and the Peak". He concludes that the Ewden line closed in 1935 as Sheffield Corporation ceased to pay the LNER for signalling services and also the ironwork of the bridges over the River Don and Manchester Road was sold for scrap in that year.

redmist
20-01-2013, 18:39
Redmat. It may well be that your oral history source for munitions in transit at Penistone is not incorrect - just their interpretation of them going to the dump. For certain some bomb cases, e.g. Grand Slam, were shipped from Penistone and it may be that with the passage of time a mix up has been made. The Grand Slams and others were produced at the David Brown, Green Road foundry, along with tanks etc. It may also be that munitions arrived for the range at Midhope through Penistone, but I have nothing as yet to support that theory.
Carnaby. The feature you have pointed out is one of the moving target ranges that formed part of the Upper Midhope training area. If you look to the east of it you will see two rectagular features that resemble huge 'shooting butts' and these were the sites of two static targets. There are a load of remains to do with this area still existing. Part of the range included a testing area where it is reported that chemical and other specialist shells were assessed. The gun platforms were very near to the storage area at Ewden.

CDP
21-01-2013, 07:21
It is the decoy control bunker for SF23

Without taking this thread too far off-topic, it's this one. There's anecdotal evidence that bombs were openly stored in the lanes around here as well in the latter stages of WWII but no hard evidence as yet to support that.

Excellent photos of Scout Dyke though from Paul B.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/sfish001.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/sf001.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm29/222sqn/sf002.jpg

Chris

CDP
21-01-2013, 07:26
Before anyone descends on Scout Dyke for a look, be aware that most of it is now a kids outward bound and activity centre, so don't expect to walk in, or even casually ask.

Chris

PETERTHEEATER
21-01-2013, 08:49
Redmat (Post 52) wrote:

Peter
I have had a look at Bowtell's "Reservoir Railways of Manchester and the Peak". He concludes that the Ewden line closed in 1935 as Sheffield Corporation ceased to pay the LNER for signalling services and also the ironwork of the bridges over the River Don and Manchester Road was sold for scrap in that year.

Spolisport:) Looks like only road haulage. If the figures for the Ewden Height storage are good, then that's a lot of truck traffic. Much of it dead of night I shouldn't wonder!

Richard Flagg
21-01-2013, 09:15
CDP, is that the control bunker that we saw the other day?

Redmat
22-01-2013, 23:07
Before anyone descends on Scout Dyke for a look, be aware that most of it is now a kids outward bound and activity centre, so don't expect to walk in, or even casually ask.

Chris
It might be worth noting that the section of the site on the reservoir side of the road (as seen in the excellent photograph in post 39) was originally developed as a hutted village for accommodating workers employed constructing the reservoirs. In 1934, according to Mr Bowtell, Barnsley Waterworks transferred the property to the Education Board who then established a camp for schoolchildren in the buildings. The educational activities predated WW2!

CDP
23-01-2013, 14:23
There is an interesting structure at Ewden HERE (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.478025362397446&lon=-1.6604134440422058&gz=19&oz=8>=1), though my feeling is it has nothing to do with the depot.

It's one of the targets for the tank / artillery range on Ewden Moors. There's another set relatively close by. NP has seen them after we went for a walk up there fairly recently. Some pics on my own web site (which desparately needs a revamp now the skin has, for some reason, changed!)

Chris

CDP
23-01-2013, 14:24
CDP, is that the control bunker that we saw the other day?

No Rich - you haven't seen that one yet. It's further out, past Scout Dyke. Actually, it's a Starfish decoy for Leeds, not Sheffield.

Chris

CDP
23-01-2013, 14:27
There were a couple of good references to Scout Dyke on the BBC 'People's War' web site. For some reason, they've taken the search function off it now. It did indicate that many of those stationed there were black (which caused some raised eyebrows locally) but their biggest concern was the speed at which they took the lanes in the wagons! Local HQ was Wortley Hall.

Chris

CDP
23-01-2013, 14:30
There is an interesting structure at Ewden HERE (http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm?lat=53.478025362397446&lon=-1.6604134440422058&gz=19&oz=8>=1), though my feeling is it has nothing to do with the depot.

Blurb from my own site Carnaby: 'Two sets of targets form the Midhope Armoured Vehicle Firing Range (AVFR): Midhope Moors and Ewden Heights. Currently research is being undertaken into these remains. So far, it is speculated that the targets were developed either for (or by) the 9th Armoured Division in 1941(?). However, there is evidence from Regimental diaries that the range was certainly used by the 1st Armoured Battalion, The Coldstream Guards in January 1944 and during 1943-1944 by the Northamptonshire Yeomanry, the latter using Cromwells and Valentines. Various exercises were undertaken including range firing, battle and camouflage practice and small arms firing.

'The range consists of two sets of targets forming linear earthworks, whose remains include associated winch mechanism pits protected by an earthen bank reinforced with a drystone butt . Also extant is a narrow, brick-lined channel for the towed target system. Larger visible remains include a narrow gauge rail line with semi-sunk rail supports, upon which heavier, possibly three dimensional, model target vehicles were winched traversing across the line of fire behind the concrete screen which runs the full length of the target carrier cutting (possibly by a Wickham Target Trolley?). At one end is the winch/target trolley shed. Also extant are the access roads (one of which is private) and the range road system, firing platforms and tank turning area. A nearby farmstead, named North America Farm, was also used as a target.

'A hutted camp at Townhead Farm, Midhopestones, was used by the range staff and visiting crews were billeted in nearby Penistone and Holmfirth.'

It was only a very brief desktop search for items - surprisingly few really. Lots of pics on places such as Flickr too with a variety of descriptions.

Chris

Everythingoutdoors
01-05-2013, 10:13
Blurb from my own site Carnaby: 'Two sets of targets form the Midhope Armoured Vehicle Firing Range (AVFR): Midhope Moors and Ewden Heights. Currently research is being undertaken into these remains. So far, it is speculated that the targets were developed either for (or by) the 9th Armoured Division in 1941(?). However, there is evidence from Regimental diaries that the range was certainly used by the 1st Armoured Battalion, The Coldstream Guards in January 1944 and during 1943-1944 by the Northamptonshire Yeomanry, the latter using Cromwells and Valentines. Various exercises were undertaken including range firing, battle and camouflage practice and small arms firing.

'The range consists of two sets of targets forming linear earthworks, whose remains include associated winch mechanism pits protected by an earthen bank reinforced with a drystone butt . Also extant is a narrow, brick-lined channel for the towed target system. Larger visible remains include a narrow gauge rail line with semi-sunk rail supports, upon which heavier, possibly three dimensional, model target vehicles were winched traversing across the line of fire behind the concrete screen which runs the full length of the target carrier cutting (possibly by a Wickham Target Trolley?). At one end is the winch/target trolley shed. Also extant are the access roads (one of which is private) and the range road system, firing platforms and tank turning area. A nearby farmstead, named North America Farm, was also used as a target.

'A hutted camp at Townhead Farm, Midhopestones, was used by the range staff and visiting crews were billeted in nearby Penistone and Holmfirth.'

It was only a very brief desktop search for items - surprisingly few really. Lots of pics on places such as Flickr too with a variety of descriptions.

Chris

Hello my first post. I was put on to this site my a nice man named Alan who was on one of my training courses over the weekend, I'm not sure if he is one of you but here goes. First thanks for the earlier mention by some one. I am as my name the owner of Everythingoutdoors. My interest is more to do with midhope and langsett but they are all linked.
I wrote a piece about it for my running club http://everythingoutdoors.co.uk/the-shooting-ranges-around-langsett-and-midhope-reservoirs/

lots of pictures here Album Midhope ranges (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.223550781094536.47942.212108952238719&type=1)

and a movie of one of the shells going "off"
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=506787029337714

I'm also one of those involved with Woodhead MRT recording an oral history of the area.

Some of the earlier comments mentioned the Ewden heights shooting range. I can confirm this is what it is and the weapons dump is known to us. the range at Midhope still has it's railway and bogie for the "Hornet" moving target still insitu if very overgrown. I'll dig out some picture and add them to the album later.

Thickwoods lane south of Langsett res was made from rubble from the Sheffield Blitz and some bricks can still be found. There was also a flares dump in the woods.

I enjoyed looking at the photos earlier. Hartcliffe hill road possibly? we knew there was an arms dump up there.

Thanks again

kebecker
01-05-2013, 14:33
Welcome and a very interesting read if I may say so, having lived in Sheffield back in the 70's I wished I had wandered a bit further afield to see all of this.

redmist
06-05-2013, 20:19
With the sunny weather and the undergrowth not being too high yet, I paid a visit back here armed with prints from the excellent pics in the earlier posts. I didn't find all the locations but some were found with a bit of searching.

I have taken the descriptions from the earlier pics to link them together.


'Open storage on roadside verges, 2000lb bombs:' -amazing that the supply posts are, at least, in the same places. Going by their knarled state maybe even the same ones?
12225

I accept this location is speculative. The buildings have changed but the lie of the land and basic wooded areas suggest it might be the spot.
'Open storage on roadside verges, 40-ton stacks of 4000lb GP bombs.
Major Bray and Major Peretti for scale:'

12235

'Unloading bombs from truck to open storage with Neal crane'
12234

'Open storage on roadside verges, 1000lb SAP bombs:'

12231


The following shots are not of any of the locations in the wartime phots but show the different surviving features along of the different roads. Some areas have survived better than others. But the mounds are still quite discernible and the ditching has produced some nice cross sections through the bases. This did help in confirming that some sites were indeed of the same type.

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Another Number
07-05-2013, 21:36
Brilliant info and photos guys, I hope to visit here soon

PETERTHEEATER
08-05-2013, 08:51
Thanks for the 'now' comparison with the 'then' photographs redmist. Road verge storage was the most common form of military munitions storage due to a shortage of other more suitable sites. The British Army, Navy and RAF needed space and then along came the USAAF.......

The RAF had an RAD at Gisburn, Yorks around 40 miles to the northwest of Scouts Dyke and that utilised roadsides but I have not been able to find more than just basic information on that site.

PETERTHEEATER
03-07-2013, 07:46
As redmist suggests, comparing the posted map with the road layout on an OS map suggests that the Blackmoor fuel storage depot would be very close to the Thurgoland railhead if the map is accurate. There were, however, sidings at Spring House next to the Cote Lane bridge, Thurgoland. These were only about a mile from Wortley Station- establishing another railhead here does not make immediate sense. My earlier thoughts regarding the use of Denby Dale and Penistone Stations do not appear to be borne out by the evidence. One of the pitfalls of oral history I guess.

At long last I have started to read and digest the text that accompanies the images posted by Paul Bellamy (downstream). As part of their initial reconnaissance of the Wortley site, then occupied by the RAF, the US Army Ordnance team noted that railway sidings were at Worley (sic), Thurgoland and Blackmore.
Worley is of course WORTLEY Station, Thurgoland station of that name closed almost a 100 years earlier, and Blackmore should read Black Moor.

Ignoring Thurgoland for the moment, the only rail sidings near to Black Moor were those serving the Oxspring Aviation Fuel Distribution Depot so, it looks as if those sidings were used as a railhead for Wortley FAD by the RAF in addition to WORTLEY Station and THURGOLAND. But,

Deeper in the document is stated a need to lay 10,000 square feet of vehicle hardstanding at THURGOLAND. But there was no Thurgoland Station and due to Black Moor and Thurgoland being adjacent they have to be one and the same.

So three ultimate railheads selected by the US Army to serve O-695, WORTLEY, THURGOLAND (Black Moor - sidings at the Fuel Depot) with SHEPLEY way up track as a back-up (?). The resident RAF are said -in the text - to have mainly used WORTLEY so PENISTONE was also spare.

redmist
04-09-2013, 19:42
I had one of those all too rare and wonderful 'eureka' moments today when I realised I had found the site of the pyrotechnic stores associated with the site, as shown in the period photo in post #41 from P Bellamy. It is a site I had first visited and photographed some years ago and had returned a number of times trying to figure out how it fitted the other erroneous description I had been 'reliably informed ' it was ! :roll:

The, now present, dry stone wall had me fooled as I had previously always considered it to be contemporary with the site. How wrong.:oops:

Anyhow here are some pictures from today, of the overall road frontage and a couple taken looking over the wall. You can just make out one side and the end of one of the hut bases. I had not seen this, or the other two I saw, on previous visits so can only assume that either I didn't look carefully enough before or the vegetation is lower due to the dry summer. There is one other base that is very prominent and obvious but I didn't record that today as I have sufficient shots from another visit. But these are on my other computer and I will have to upload them later, along with the exact location. I didn't have time today to seek out the landowner to get permission to go on the land and do a bit of measuring and probing so this will have to wait until another visit.



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PETERTHEEATER
05-09-2013, 10:11
Thanks redmist, I should be interested to know the location.

The caption that goes with the photograph of the Pyrotechnic Stores (Post # 42) states that there were six Nissen huts with bases measuring 16 feet by 36 feet. The huts appear to have been side-by-side but may have been in two groups of three each, i.e. separation distance between the groups.

So the dry stone wall was erected (or re-erected!) post-war. One of my late uncles was a 'waller' amongst his other estate duties and had learned the skill from an artisan so I do admire such work when out for a walk.

redmist
06-09-2013, 13:17
Here are a couple of shots of the 'obvious' hut base taken twelve months ago. I wont be able to do any further measuring etc for at least a couple of weeks. I will post full details once I have had chance to do a full survey.


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redmist
26-09-2013, 13:58
I managed to get to the site again and the remains on the ground confirm the caption from the original photos, 6 huts approx. 15w by 32(?) feet. The length is vague as the ends nearest to the road are buried beneath the wall and the verge. One base seems to be quite disturbed or broken and another is pretty well buried, but it is still there. The location can be seen on this GE image.

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A few more pictures of the remaining bases.

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Also some pictures of possible locations of roadside bomb stands, now transformed in to parking or passing bays. Local oral history has it that some of the store areas around here were no more than holes knocked through the field walls, with a hole being dug, the bombs put in and then a camo net over the top. With that in mind I took a look at some of the walls and, although many will have had general repairs over the years, there does appear to be a bit of a pattern of repair to some of the walls which maybe confirms this record? Others can decide for themselves.

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Lastly I include a photo of a gas cylinder(?) I picked up close to one of the bases. I accept it might be more to do with builders rubble than WW2. Size wise it is 12 inches long and 2 ,3/4 diameter. It appears to be Imperial rather than metric sized. It is quite heavy for what it is, suggesting to me an older item from a time when material was more generous in thickness! Your thoughts?

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PETERTHEEATER
28-09-2013, 08:57
Thanks redmist. Those bases are more substantial than I expected. Also, the location shows that the initial sketch map for the location of the Wortley site shown in the US Army archive does not cover that area meaning that storage space was expanded to include adjacent roads in the area.

Yes, the current 'lay-bys' and 'passing places' are almost certainly former bomb storage hardstands and as you surmise, the visual differences in sections of the dry stone walling are indicative of post-war rebuild of sections demolished to permit munitions storage.

It is clear that the dry stone wall was demolished in places in order to lay the bases for the huts close to the existing road (as seen in Photo 6 Post #41 this thread) although the quality of the photo reproduction means that the deep shadows hide those sections of the wall between the huts. Post war the wall has been rebuilt and thus covers the front part of the hut bases.

As to the cylinder it appears to be a pressure vessel drawn steel tube with welded hemispherical ends and a screwed spigot for valve attachment. But it is small so may have been a handheld CO2 extinguisher. If you can take a wire brush to the neck end you might uncover some stamped letters/numerals with an initial test date and filling date. Alternatively it could be a 'balancer' receiver from an air compressor, who knows? If it is heavy as you say then it was a high pressure vessel.

redmist
28-09-2013, 19:55
Certainly the bomb store extended beyond the area indicated on the contemporary map shown in the earlier posting.
On the image I have shown some of the speculated and known features. The railhead at Blackmoor has a logical access, shown in yellow, to the roadside area and the pyro stores.
All the roads, and others beyond the indicated area, shown in blue are bounded by drystone walls that appear to show evidence along some, but not all, of their length of sections having been removed and repaired.
There was a guardpost somewhere along on the exit road from Oxspring. (Top of the image) Access could only be gained along that road with a pass.
A similar guard post is recorded as being somewhere on the road between Green Moor and Stocksbridge so it could reasonably be speculated that the store was also along this road area, shown in red.
The road shown in white, Underbank Lane, is recorded in Barnsley library (recorded oral history) as being part of the store area. Although in fairness this road, in part, is very steep and would not easily lend itself to it. Perhaps its upper end near to the pyro stores was?
As previously referred to in this thread, and elsewhere, the store area extended as far south as the Wharncliffe/Grenoside area.

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roger fearnley
12-10-2013, 18:27
photo open storage on roadside verges 2000 lb bombs is at grid ref 206053 spicer house lane looking NNW

roger fearnley
12-10-2013, 18:39
photo open storage on roadside verges 1000 lb sap bombs is at grid ref 200060 on brown"s edge road

PETERTHEEATER
13-10-2013, 05:21
Welcome to AiX Roger and thanks for the input.

Just to confirm: Is that Post No 41 - Image 1 (1000lb SAP) and Post No 40 - Images 4 and 5 - to which you refer?

Are you local and recognize the features or did you locate from another source?

redmist
13-10-2013, 18:46
Both these locations are shown in the 'then and now' photos I posted

'...1000lb sap... ' is photo No.4 #65

'...2000lb sap... ' is photo No.1 #65 but in fairness this location is just a short distance further North of the previous location on Broadstone Lane, not Brown's Edge Road. Although I accept that there are probably signs of storage areas along the latter.

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roger fearnley
23-10-2013, 16:21
Welcome to AiX Roger and thanks for the input.

Just to confirm: Is that Post No 41 - Image 1 (1000lb SAP) and Post No 40 - Images 4 and 5 - to which you refer?

Are you local and recognize the features or did you locate from another source?


post 41 image 1 and post40 image 5

i live in penistone and in the late 1960"s early 1970"s went round most of the aircraft crash sites on the hills and other defences before any of the books etc were published

we walked past the images in the photos two weeks ago

PETERTHEEATER
24-10-2013, 09:53
Roger, thank you. As a local, could I ask you to read (re-read?) my Post 68 on Page 2 of this thread and give me your thoughts on the Thurgoland and Black Moor railheads. I find it difficult to accept that sidings serving the Oxspring Aviation Fuel Depot also were used for munitions.

roger fearnley
27-10-2013, 17:10
sorry no info on post 68 page 2

post 41 image 2 40 ton stack is at grid ref 233011 hartcliffe hill road looking east

PETERTHEEATER
28-10-2013, 09:46
Thanks Roger.

redmist
30-10-2013, 23:26
Good call on that location Roger.

Having now re-visited some of the area I think we can now confidently locate, rather than speculate, that the bomb store extended along (perhaps in 'patches') most of this ridgeline road from Hartcliff to the boundaries of Greenmoor - as hinted at by the record of a guard post along this road.

Post#41 picture number 4 is here on Hunshelf Hall Road near to the site of the modern electricity distribution centre

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Post#41 picture number 5 is here further along the road towards Greenmoor

14480

Interestingly between the two there appears to be a number of hut bases in a field adjacent to the road. I've not measured the now only one surviving one other than by the Google Earth facility but it seems to compare with the pyro huts further along. It may be they mark the position of huts 'sold off' to a farmer post war and moved to a more convenient position, or maybe they are the actual site of WW2 buildings?

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Regarding the question of the position of the 'active' railhead Blackmoor/ Thurgoland. The reference to the requirement for 10000 sq feet of hardstanding may help? Although there is space at Thurgoland station site there seems to be no surviving trace of any. However there is no shortage of such at Blackmoor, although much of it visible now is certainly of later period. I did a bit of poking around in the remains of a very ruinous structure now outside the site with a view to trying to establish whether it dated from the wartime period. A late post war aerial photo suggests it is of the same size as the 'guard/gate house' inside the depot. Getting a definitive answer on this would I feel confirm a further guard post on my speculative route out from the sidings to the RBS. Is anyone on this site up on old electrical switchgear? The only item I found was a heavy duty metal switchbox with the logo BMLtd in a circle. A google search has so far not turned anything up

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PETERTHEEATER
31-10-2013, 08:04
Re your image 3

There would certainly have been more temporary hut storage for sensitive stores other than incendiaries and your GE screenshot shows what I would expect.

Viewed in Street View one is now being used for a convenient hard base gated access to the field and the other is overgrown. The dry stone wall shows signs of being rebuilt.

redmist
01-11-2013, 16:47
Keep turning a few more bits up. I should have looked more carefully at the field with the two obvious bases in it. In fact there are quite a few more! Two more on the 'far away' short side and quite a cluster of 'somethings' in the fenced off corner. One very obvious one and probably one either side (highlighted). With what looks like two or three structures of different sizes at various angles adjacent to them. Obviously the farmer doesn't use this patch due to the various foundations that would interfere with things.

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What I think is an even better find are what appear to be a number of 'storage bays' of the type referred to in a local oral history record, that of 'a hole was knocked in the wall, a scape made in the field behind and then the whole lot was covered with a camouflage net'. I suspect the adjacent fields have similar remains along the wall side as you may note the fields are not used up to the wall side, having quite a wide strip of the same depth as the surviving bays.

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PETERTHEEATER
02-11-2013, 12:21
What I think is an even better find are what appear to be a number of 'storage bays' of the type referred to in a local oral history record

There is a text description and a photograph of that type of field store in the US Army records and I shall try to find it because it was accompanied with a photograph. This type was used for CW filled ammo since it provided a degree of sub-surface protection. The walls were lined with sandbags and the 'cut' covered with curved corrugated steel sheets bolted together to form a kind of Nissen Hut but no ribs or purlins. Thought that I had it on file.

redmist
02-11-2013, 22:08
Obviously some of you chaps have access to documents I have not seen (and would not know where to start looking to find them!) so does anyone have a date from when the RAF first surveyed and/or occupied the area please? Would it have had an official 'name' as well as the designation number given in earlier posts (220MU)? Is there a known date for when it was vacated/closed/ officially given up by the military in anyone's documentation? Thanks for any background information - just personal curiosity having been 'bit by the bug' for this site.

I have now found the locations of possibly as many as 40+ hut bases and storage pads across the storage area in addition to those previously found and posted about. I will post their locations once I have found a suitable manner and preferably visited all of them to cross check and photo current remains (if any).

PETERTHEEATER
03-11-2013, 04:39
redmist, check your PMs

PETERTHEEATER
03-11-2013, 09:06
Re my Post 86:

Text of US Army General Instructions for Storage:

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l366/PRACHUAP/GeneralinfoonstorageironcoversPage249_zpsaf779ee4. jpg

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l366/PRACHUAP/GeneralinfoonstorageironcoversPage247_zps8eeb1cd1. jpg

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l366/PRACHUAP/GeneralinfoonstorageironcoversPage248_zps0c69467b. jpg

redmist
03-11-2013, 20:53
Thanks Peter. Responded.

redmist
09-11-2013, 17:54
I have recently had a (very) brief account of the southern end of the site at Grenoside. The store there being described from memory by a first hand witness, in the 1970's, as being 'mounds with doors in'. Unless someone has information regarding later post war use of this part of the site, this does suggest a very different method of storage of some materials to the rest of the area. Not being in the slightest a munitions expert what kind of item might be stored this way as opposed to the 'open' bomb stacks and the huts containing 'pyrotechnics'/ fuses whatever? I also have seen a reference to the site as being one for 'munitions disposal', but I accept this may be someone's completely incorrect description/interpretation. Thanks for any input.

PETERTHEEATER
10-11-2013, 05:27
Yes. Common in US Army Ordnance field storage within UK was an earth covered (haunched) Nissen hut typically used for the storage of propellent charges and suchlike requiring dry storage with ventilation. The front entrance doors were usually protected (insubstantially!) with a brick blast wall thus:

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l366/PRACHUAP/SavernakeearthcoveredNissen_zps874d641e.jpg

This is an example built at Savernake Forest

Photograph courtesy of Fold3

roger fearnley
11-11-2013, 16:42
Keep turning a few more bits up. I should have looked more carefully at the field with the two obvious bases in it. In fact there are quite a few more! Two more on the 'far away' short side and quite a cluster of 'somethings' in the fenced off corner. One very obvious one and probably one either side (highlighted). With what looks like two or three structures of different sizes at various angles adjacent to them. Obviously the farmer doesn't use this patch due to the various foundations that would interfere with things.

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What I think is an even better find are what appear to be a number of 'storage bays' of the type referred to in a local oral history record, that of 'a hole was knocked in the wall, a scape made in the field behind and then the whole lot was covered with a camouflage net'. I suspect the adjacent fields have similar remains along the wall side as you may note the fields are not used up to the wall side, having quite a wide strip of the same depth as the surviving bays.

14490

14491


there are two more hut bases nearby on brock holes lane left hand side going down hill grid ref 231014 and maybe two others a few yards further down but not raised above ground level