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CDP
05-12-2010, 19:58
Yes, I know M & E Plinths have been covered elsewhere but it's a little piece-meal and I do have a specific question, if a little obscure. This is a long shot but does anyone know of, or indeed have any photographs of the interior of a typical wartime M & E Plinth? A quick question to NP yesterday reveals he doesn't have a drawing as such (in fact, I don't think I've ever seen a drawing number for them on RSP's).

However, if anyone knows of any, or drawings, especially with the transformer in situ (and any other ancillary equipment), it would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Chris

Paul Francis
05-12-2010, 20:22
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/norwichpaul/6b2911f8.jpg

Burtonwood

Able Mabel
05-12-2010, 23:15
Interesting . . .

I took the actual measurements of such an installation at Ingham and Killingholme.
Each had the two concrete plinths in the floor and if i remember correctly, despite the brick wall surround, the NK example had wire mesh gate(s) within a metal frame

May have a similar photo taken at North Cotes although i suspect that at the time i took the photo the installation may well have been the modern equivalent . . .

Richard Drew
05-12-2010, 23:24
http://www.atlantikwall.co.uk/atlantikwall/awall_use/a%20picture%20details/British/raf/buildings/buildings/M&E/m&e-plinth-details.jpg nice to see Paul's has something inside it, most I have seen were either empty or completely filled with vegetation or detritus.

http://www.atlantikwall.co.uk/atlantikwall/warwickshire/long_marston01/pics/main03.jpg

RAF Long Marston (http://www.atlantikwall.co.uk/atlantikwall/warwickshire/long_marston01/html/page01.htm)

CDP
06-12-2010, 10:57
That photo is bang on the money Paul - thanks!!

Chris

CDP
09-12-2010, 19:15
Interesting . . .

I took the actual measurements of such an installation at Ingham and Killingholme.
Each had the two concrete plinths in the floor and if i remember correctly, despite the brick wall surround, the NK example had wire mesh gate(s) within a metal frame

May have a similar photo taken at North Cotes although i suspect that at the time i took the photo the installation may well have been the modern equivalent . . .

Be interested in the measurement AM. I've only bought the one transformer though but you've got me thinking - did ALL M & E plinths have two such units in them? I'll be trying to get out and measure one up somewhere soon. The transformer I've bought is perhaps more modern but, looking at NP's Burtonwood photo, it's very close indeed and will suffice. Only issue I have, it's 1/43rd scale! Luckily, I've managed to source some 7mm English Bond textured plasticard for not a lot.

Any further to a build will be under the modelling & simm section. Thanks for the replies folks.

Chris

Carnaby
09-12-2010, 20:43
AP3236 states that 11kV equipment would be contained in a steel kiosk, 3.3kV equipment (typical M&E contents) would be inside a concrete floored enclosure, surrounded by a blast wall or unclimbable fence. Latterly the blast wall was omitted in favour of chain-link fencing.

The contents would be: step-down transformer, two isolators, fuse switch, feeder pillar.

Tech sites would have several distribution centres with important facilities (tower, ops block etc) being fed from two sites. Dispersed sites, if close together, would often share one plinth. These sites were remote controlled via a 50 volt system, enabling non-essential services to be shut down in an emergency.

Despite the fact that I was initially trained in electrical things, and have been involved most of my life, the relevant chapter in 'Works' is very heavy going.

Graham

buccaneer66
09-12-2010, 20:47
Where these things always the same standard design?

mawganmad
09-12-2010, 22:50
Good question, there are two M&E installations at St Athan and they are quite different to each other in size, wall shape, and the equipment within.
Pretty sure that I've seen varying designs on different airfields aswel, but these could be the two types that Carnaby mentions.

Able Mabel
10-12-2010, 12:43
Taken from my original sketch, 1996, All the walls had a cement covering in the form of a curve on their tops ONLY. (As seen on the LM example above).

Two gates approx. 21 inches wide with a 'diamond' mesh.
Angle Iron frame with a horizontal cross member thro the middle and also a diagonal the full length of the gate.
Gates were approx 58 inches high.
ALL WALLS WERE 14 INCHES

Able Mabel
10-12-2010, 13:04
34613462
Dug out a couple of photos from 1996 showing the gates on this particular installation.

On the First photo i have high-lighted a 'pit' of sort, possibly the 'Inlet' for the UG feed ???

Second photo was taken inside the area looking out towards the blast walls. Note the Rod bar used as bracket for the gates.

buccaneer66
10-12-2010, 13:16
Very useful information time to go play with SketchUp.

Able Mabel
11-12-2010, 13:09
On my original drawing of the ME installation i have noted the drawing No: 448/43 and on the site plan it was listed as Bld. No. 137.

Also a point of interest, on the Ingham installation there was a 'lip' on the outer top edge of the brickwork, approx. 2", at the very top on both the enclosed section as well as the blast wall and this can be made out on the LM photo . . .

Paul Francis
11-12-2010, 20:41
Wow, couldn't you have chosen a font size even bigger?

Able Mabel
12-12-2010, 16:46
Wow, couldn't you have chosen a font size even bigger?

When i have been reading thro the numerous topics i have to read everything to be sure to spot such drawings numbers, thought this would be easier to see more readily

156PFF
22-12-2010, 16:17
Plaque from an M&E Plinth at Witchford. I had scanned it all ready for inclusion here but its asking for an image URL which I guess means I've got to FTP it. Can't FTP things as its beyond me so have typed the details of the plaque below.

I had visited dispersed site N0.11 (WAAF) which was largely complete until the early 90s when the Witchford Bypass went through the middle of it.

Anyway, the day after the site was demolished I went back to have a look at what was left. Only 2 of the Laing type airwomens quarters (site plan numbers 516 and 517) remain today at the side of the bypass.

The transformer and its brick enclosure (518) were of course gone but left on the ground amongst the rubble was the brass plaque from the transformer so I rescued it. My friend had removed the red and white enamel sign from the enclosure just a few days before the demolition guys arrived, it said HIGH VOLTAGE, DISTRIBUTION CENTRE L.

If it helps I can email anyone the image so they can see what the plaque looks like, please let me know.
Martin

THE BRITISH THOMSON-HOUSTON CO LTD
RUGBY ENGLAND

TRANSFORMER

B.T.H. TYPE DT FORM T135 SERIAL R392515
TYPE OF COOLING ON KVA 50 FREQUENCY 50
VOLTS NO LOAD HV 3300 LV 400 VECTOR REF 41 DY 11
AMPERES HV 9.25 LV 72.2 CONN DIAG YD76055
PHASE HV 3 LV 3 TO BSS 171 1936

MADE IN ENGLAND

156PFF
22-12-2010, 16:21
Transformer number 518 on the site plan, don't know where the smiley face came from.
Martin

Paul Francis
22-12-2010, 16:48
Just put a bullet through its skull!

hornet
20-01-2011, 10:54
Hi, Guys, quick, possibly stupid question, what were M&E plinths used for, I guess they were for providing power to various airfield installations, reason I ask, so far I have found three at metheringham, one is near to the watch office, the other two it seems are well away from anything !see picture for locations ( ringed ), was there any reason for this? or were they to power installations close by that are not there anymore? or any other reason?
cheers, Hornet

ricasso
20-01-2011, 12:48
Hi, Guys, quick, possibly stupid question, what were M&E plinths used for, I guess they were for providing power to various airfield installations, reason I ask, so far I have found three at metheringham, one is near to the watch office, the other two it seems are well away from anything !see picture for locations ( ringed ), was there any reason for this? or were they to power installations close by that are not there anymore? or any other reason?
cheers, Hornet

with respect have you read the previous posts in this thread? lots of useful information to be found there!

Richard190
15-02-2013, 20:13
Hi, Guys, quick, possibly stupid question, what were M&E plinths used for, I guess they were for providing power to various airfield installations, reason I ask, so far I have found three at metheringham, one is near to the watch office, the other two it seems are well away from anything !see picture for locations ( ringed ), was there any reason for this? or were they to power installations close by that are not there anymore? or any other reason?
cheers, Hornet
From what I can gather they are pretty much the secondary substations for the airfield, where there would be a ring supply at HV (3.3kv) and these would be used to step it down to useable LV (400v) at places where it is needed. The switches at these sites are useful as it allows for open points on the network to allow for backfeeds and to also turn the transformer off so work can be done to it. Obviously the voltages are different to the ones used these days but the principal is still very much the same. :)

Carnaby
15-02-2013, 22:32
Have addressed this on the Metheringham thread (http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?8817-Metheringham&p=120849#post120849)


From what I can gather they are pretty much the secondary substations for the airfield, where there would be a ring supply at HV (3.3kv) and these would be used to step it down to useable LV (400v) at places where it is needed. The switches at these sites are useful as it allows for open points on the network to allow for backfeeds and to also turn the transformer off so work can be done to it. Obviously the voltages are different to the ones used these days but the principal is still very much the same.

An interesting query here Richard. You refer to 3.3kV as High Voltage and 400 as Low Voltage. What has happened to Medium Voltage?

Now a previous post shows this on the nameplate: VOLTS NO LOAD HV 3300 LV 400 VECTOR REF 41 DY 11

In modern parlance Medium Voltage is at least 600 volts to as much as 75,000 volts (depending-on what-you-read!) but 3.3kV is definitely in it.

I'm really struggling to understand the electrical chapter in AP3236 which refers a lot to '3.3kV' and 'Medium Voltage', but doesn't mention 'Low Voltage'. I'm wondering if the standards were very different in WWII, and 240 / 415 was classed as MV?

Confused? I am !

Richard190
16-02-2013, 19:34
I would guess they would have been working to different standards during the war. I refer to 3.3KV being HV as the current Electricity at Work Regulations state anything greater than 1000V a.c is classed as HV. Anything greater than 50V a.c and not exceeding 1000V a.c when measured between phase conductors or 600V a.c when measured between a phase conductor and earth is classed as LV and extra-low voltage (ELV) is less than 50V a.c.
I suppose thinking about it what we would identify as ELV could have been LV during the war?

I apologise if I caused any confusion, having just started an apprenticeship with the Electric Board I've had all this drummed into me! :)