WWII Searchlight Emplacements

[GeoQuest]

I wonder if any one can help please, I’ve been asked some questions regarding the location of WWII searchlight emplacements in the Derbyshire Peak District. Are there extant records of their locations, particularly in north Derbyshire, and more specifically on Mam Tor near Castleton (I find the Hill Fort location rather hard to believe! ) I’ve tried the Defence of Britain Archive, but nothing shows anywhere around the Hope Valley

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Geoquest

[PETERTHEEATER]

http://www.pastscape.org/SearchResults.aspx?rational=q&criteria=SEARCHLIGHT%20DERBYSHIRE&search=ALL&sort=4&recordsperpage=10

[Alastair]

There was one in Edale near Upper Booth, I wasn't aware of one on Mam Tor but Pastscape does mention one (http://www.pastscape.org/hob.aspx?hob_id=309596&sort=4&search=all&criteria=SEARCHLIGHT DERBYSHIRE&rational=q&recordsperpage=10) on the search Peter has posted (and it appears on the Defence of Britain database, whilst the Upper Booth battery doesn't). Many years ago I spoke with a gentleman that was stationed with the searchlight battery in Edale. I may still have my notes, but it's getting on for 20 years since I was living there. I think there's a reference to the battery in one of the volumes of Dark Peak Aircraft Wrecks, but I don't have a copy available.

[GeoQuest]

Thanks Peter that’s exactly what I was looking for. So there really was a WW II searchlight emplacement on Mam Tor. Presumably there would also have been a generator and some sort of accommodation for the operators – it must have been pretty grim up there in the winter months! I think I might visit the site in the summer to see if I can identify any features which may have been associated with the emplacement.

[GeoQuest]

Thanks for the info Alastair.

[Alastair]

You might also try the archives of the Edale Society, but I'm not sure if the society is still running, if someone in the valley still holds the archives, or if they've been transferred to County Archives in Matlock. A bit of detective work might be required.

[PETERTHEEATER]

Thanks Peter that’s exactly what I was looking for. So there really was a WW II searchlight emplacement on Mam Tor. Presumably there would also have been a generator and some sort of accommodation for the operators – it must have been pretty grim up there in the winter months! I think I might visit the site in the summer to see if I can identify any features which may have been associated with the emplacement.

Sorry I didn't have time to comment but I'm pleased it had what you wanted. A useful 'bookmark'

[a10694]

Amazingly, I bought a book on Saturday at Brierlow Bar bookshop, "Eyes (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eyes-Night-Defence-North-Western-England/dp/1844152960/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1327148256&sr=8-12)

On page 58, it describes the Edale Installation in December 1940. It's not really clear, but appears to have been close to coopers farm (which I think is in the middle of Edale). The accommodation was some ex-LDV wooden huts. I, One of the installations was a mobile installation with a Lister diesel Generator on the back of a truck to power the "large electric flares". These were like "large Chinese lanterns". The lights were to be setup "on an exact compass bearing as an isosceles triangle, base running east to west, and the point pointing north, The actual "lantern" installation was "up a hill", which may be anywhere around Edale! It was managed by AA HQ at Whaley Bridge. The lanterns gave off an "eerie glow".

It was located at the junction of two of the fighter patrol lines south of Manchester, the eastern end of Cotton South, and the southern end of Cotton East. The point was known as Cotton East. The operators were unaware of the use, but soon associated it with RAF fighters, as they soon appeared overhead when they were told to switch it on by the command "Lights Cotton East".

In the same installation was a searchlight unit, equipped with American Sperry 150 cm lights, and was used for searchlight homing, a procedure to guide pilots who were lost to the nearest airfield. There was a standard procedure (which I can't be bothered to type out!), The master searchlight was pointed vertically, switched on and it's elevation slowly decreased to 30 degrees so that it pointed as a finger in the sky towards the nearest airfield, which fired rockets.

Please see the following comment for more details.

[a10694]

And, even more.

refer to document: http://www.moorsforthefuture.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/MFF%20RR03%20Bevan%20B%202005%20Conservation%20her itage%20assessment%3B%20Edale%20valley.pdf

there is a small mention:

On the southern side of the valley are two to three run-in ventilation shafts with spoil
heaps (features 91.202, 91.331, 91.332). These are above the line of a level driven under
Rushup Edge, probably sometime between the 1730's and the 1860's, with the aim of
finding the Odin lead vein at depth. At the upper end of the valley bottom is a rare
example of surviving earthworks of a 1939-45 searchlight battery (feature 72), which
includes features associated with three searchlights, a listening device, two machine guns
and barracks.

And a bigger mention:

Three adjacent fields have narrow ridge and furrow, overlain by the searchlight battery
earthworks (72).
91.72. Searchlight Battery Earthworks
NGR: 410576 384786
A complex series of well-preserved earthworks which are the remains of a 1939-45
searchlight battery; the only one as yet recorded in the Peak National Park. The features
are as follows:
a: A searchlight site comprising two penannular earthen banks, like all the banks on
site originally built of sandbags (R. Cooper pers. comm.), with an entrance to the
ENE. The outer bank is the highest, is 2-3m wide, and has an external diameter of
14.5m. The entrance through it is 1.2m wide. The inner bank is a low, flat-topped
feature which is 2.0-2.5m wide and has an internal diameter of 3.0-3.5m. The
entrance through this is 1.7m wide. The central area is flat.
b: A searchlight site comprising two penannular earthen banks, with a 1.6m wide
entrance to the ESE, with a short outer bank protecting the entrance to the outside.
The outer bank is the highest, is 3.0m wide, and has an external diameter of 16.0m.
The inner bank is a low feature which is only 1.25m wide and has an internal
diameter of 5.0m. The central area is flat.
c: A searchlight site which has been largely removed, with only a short arc of what
was presumably an outer bank, surviving unploughed to the north next to the field
boundary. It has an outer diameter of c 15m.
d: A circular hollow of uncertain function, perhaps a quarry for sandbag material. It
has an outer diameter of 7.5m, with a slightly-raised boggy area at the centre.
e: A rectangular platform built of bricks. The site of a building measuring 5x8m in
plan.
f: The listening apparatus site. This comprises a circular bank which has an external
diameter of 17.0m and is 3.5m wide and 0.8m high. To the ENE is a narrow
entrance where the bank kinks outwards, and then runs across the line of the
entrance, to give added protection. There is a simple, 0.5m wide, break in the bank
to the SE. At the centre of the flat interior is a low brick wall defining a 1.1x1.3m
rectangular structure. This supported the listening apparatus, which resembled a
giant gramophone trumpet (R. Cooper pers. comm.).
37 g: Machine gun site. This comprises a semi-circular arc of bank with an external
diameter of 6.0m, with the other half of the feature being damaged and now only
present as a slight mound.
h: Machine gun site. A 7.0m diameter mound with a slight hollow at the centre. At the
east side is a bank-like extension to the mound which is c. 5.0m long.
i: A terraced building platform which measures c. 4.5x4.5m.
j: A terraced building platform which measures c. 6.5x4.5m.
k: A terraced building platform which measures c. 6.5x5.5m.
l: A terraced building platform which measures c. 12.0x6.0m.
m: A terraced building platform which measures c. 6.0x6.0m.
n: A terraced building platform which measures c. 12.0x6.0m.
o: A terraced building platform which measures c. 12.0x6.0m.
p: A terraced building platform which measures c. 5.5x4.0m.

I reckon that it is about here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=edale&hl=en&ll=53.359407,-1.839279&spn=0.001369,0.004128&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=22.297654,67.631836&vpsrc=6&hnear=Edale,+Derbyshire,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=19

[Alastair]

If you look one screen-width to the east (here (http://g.co/maps/xzt86)) it looks like the remains are still visible..

(and yes, Cooper's farm is as far as I remember in the village centre - they run/ran the campsite and shop/post office opposite the school)

[PETERTHEEATER]

Wasn't the searchlight 'pointing' homing system codenamed SANDRA?

[a10694]

That's the area in question, there appears to be some bits in the wooded area, I'll have a look in the area probably next Saturday (I'm advised by the resident weather forecaster in the conservatory that next weekend's forecast is snow). The article does not mention "Sandra", it appears that the operators had no idea what they were actually doing, they were only following orders.

It was quite spooky actually. I had been looking at the remains of the Goldsitch Moss coalfield with a friend earlier that day (it's very obscure, at the back of the Roaches), went into Brierlow Bar bookshop, spotted the book (£6.99 - £10 cheaper than Amazon) and there was a picture of a JU88 crashed on Goldsitch Moss, and then started reading it, to discover a section on Edale when I remembered the query on here about MamTor!

[norwichpaul]

Really surprised the extant features were built using metric units (7.0m, 7.5m, 12m diameter etc) either these measurements are inaccurate or they were built by some foreign unit.

[PETERTHEEATER]

They were almost certainly built using Imperial Units of measurement but the modern day report has used Metric but, in my opinion, has rounded up or down the conversions.

That said, measuring an earth 'bank' bund or traverse built 70 odd years ago with any accuracy is impossible. Or have I missed your point Paul?

Curiously, even the USA military used metric to describe the mean diameter of a searchlight projector, e.g 90cm, 120cm but then so did the British Military in an era when Imperial Units ruled! Must have been a Continental import!

[GeoQuest]

Thanks very much for providing this extremely interesting and useful info. Oh and by the way you have reminded me its time I visited Brierlow Bar again - an excellent bookshop!

[PETERTHEEATER]

I am not sure which tread this image best fits. It is filed under:

Aircraft Navigation and Guidance: MPs visiting No 554 Anti Aircraft Battery near Harwich watching a demonstration of a searchlight with radar equipment known as ELSIE - 90 cm Searchlight Control Radar (SLC) No 2 Mk VI - which entered service in 1942 and was of immense assistance to anti-aircraft when used against the flying bomb attacks of 1944.

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l366/PRACHUAP/ELSIEsearchlightradar1942IWMH28386.jpg

Courtesy of Imperial War Museum IWMH28386.

[a10694]

As we are into pictures of searchlights, two coastal searchlight units at Blyth (NE) with the front doors now bricked up, and a memorial to the "Skylighters".

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/p10694/hols08/searchlight1.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/p10694/hols08/searchlight2.jpg

[Alan Clark]

The mention in Dark Peak Aircraft Wrecks (Vol.1) was about Blenheim Z5870 which crashed somewhere above Lee Farm on the southern side of Kinder. The wreck was discovered by one of the personnel from the searchlight unit.

Does anyone have any idea which Battery was responsible for the site in July 1941? Ron Collier never put that in DPAW.

[a10694]

Visited Today, very hazy day, The site makes more sense when you actually go to look.

These three pictures are of the mounds in the Parent Searchlight site:

8313

8314

8315

I guess these rectangular mounds along the fence line are the accommodation huts. The site was obviously drained with a decent ditch all around.

8316

I was told by a local chap that this "hill" was where the beacon lights, and generator were.

Nothing remains up there, I did investigate a square patch that was visible on Google Earth, only to find a family eating off the picnic table.

The hills are known locally as Barber Booth Tips, and are actually the excavation waste that was dumped from the construction of Cowburn Tunnel.

8317

There are two interpretation boards in the area, sadly neither mentions the searchlight unit.

[Vix]

Hi,

This thread came up on a search and I'm hoping you might be able to help! I'm looking for information on a searchlight emplacement in Burnopfield, near Gateshead (the Natinoal Trust property that owns the land are trying to build their own database of what's on it as currently there's nothing). I've had a look on the database mentioned but couldn't find it. Any thoughts on anywhere else to look? Thanks.

[a10694]

Try on here: http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/wwwfileroot/legacy/regen/locallist/tyne_and_wear_defence_sites.pdf

[a10694]

A quick look at Google Earth 1945 imagery shows this WW2 style feature near Gibside Hall, not a HAA site but possibly something smaller, like a searchlight site and a bit of accommodation - it's probably worth a mooch in the woodland there.

8546

8547

Now, we need a bit of history !

[PNK]

It's a pity there is nowhere to log all sites found. It would be useful as someone might have the answer.

[tigger]

It's a pity there is nowhere to log all sites found. It would be useful as someone might have the answer.

Fairly easy to create an online database to do it but how much info do you think ought to be included?
What sort of sites?
Lat, long, county, url of aerial image, notes?
Or more than that?

[Vix]

That books very useful, thanks! I'll have a better look at the maps and see if anything matches up.

@a10694: that's where I'm looking I think. It's pretty much complete as far as I can tell.

[a10694]

Is there anything in the woods? This site isn't logged in the Searchlighters website as being one of theirs.

Not bad for someone who lives near Chester !

[pauline]

The photo of the searchlight posted by Peter looks very familiar to me, we had one of these in a field near my home in Gt Horkesley in Essex for a short time. I think those in charge lived in tents and the searchlight had a very large canvas canvas cover if I remember correctly. This blew off when a friend and I were being entertained to a wad and a cup of tea, and we disappeared underneath it. My friend, Ashton, and i would have been six or seven at the time I guess, happy wartime memories!

Pauline.