Hello from the States!

[Carol]

Hi! I'm Carol, daughter of two British soldiers (WWII). Dad died in 1973, and I have just received copies of his service records from the Army Personnel Centre in Glasgow. They're a bit difficult to read because of all of the codes, but I do know that he served from 10 April 1941-12 Aug 1946, and was last stationed at Donna Nook Airfield. He enlisted as a pte, and was apparently assigned to the "1st AA Div 'Z' Trg Regt RA" (translates as 1st Army Aircorps Division Z Training Regiment, Royal Airforce?). On 5 June 1941, he was sent to the "NO/Coast Arty Group" (North Coast Artillery Group?) with a rank (?) of GNR. He was promoted to Lance Corporal on 14 October 1942, and when he was discharged, his superior, Maj. B.J. (?) Marsh wrote that his military conduct had been "very good," commenting "This man is far above the average in intelligence. Sober, honest & trustworthy."

Then on 5 December 1943, Dad agreed to service overseas, and was transferred to the Leicestershire Artillery. He was promoted to Lance Corporal on 14 October 1942, and (if I am reading this correctly) wounded on 29 November 1943 "Ref 44331 (AG6a)." Apparently, he received a head wound serious enough to be "likely to interfere with efficiency" (a statement labeled "B117") on 12 May 1944 (that one is labeled "B114"). I would be very grateful if someone could help me translate some of these alphanumerics, or tell me what document(s) or websites I would consult to be able to do so myself, as Dad never, ever spoke of his experiences in the service--and if anyone served with and remembers him, that would be more wonderful than I can say!

[kebecker]

welcome aboard.

I may not have all of this correct, but here goes!

GNR = gunner which is the Artillary version of private (pte)

AA would be likely be anti aircraft in the context you have quoted RA is Royal Artillery

The Leicestershire Artillary is likely the Leicestershire Yoemenry, which I think was at that time an artillery Regiment. This likely explains the rank of Lance Corporal, the RA rank would have been Lance Bombardier.

Confusing, yes but a army career well worth filling in the gaps

for further reading, and I have not looked into this, you may find that his Regiment (s) published "year books" (eg The Rifle Bigade Association published The Rifle Brigade Chronicles) If these were published for your fathers Regiment, they can probably be picked up used from something like ABE Books

Hope this helps in a small way

[norwichpaul]

Welcome to AiX Carol. That is a difficult one to give a definitive answer straight away. You have to first understand a little about the command structure. At the start of war, Anti-Aircraft Command was divided into seven AA divisions (1 to 7), it was then re-organised in the spring of 1941 into 12 divisions under three Corps, but all this changed at the end of 1942 when divisions and corps were replaced by six AA groups. At the lower end of the hierarchy there were three main tiers of command which actually stayed constant throughout the war. Below a division, was a brigade, below that were regiments and then regiments were sub-divided into batteries which were made up of platoons which manned the guns. The 1st AA Division as far as I can tell were responsible for the defence of London. The Z may refer to ZAA, a 3 in or 2 in rocket projector, the launchers have up to 20 barrels - the small versions used against low flying aircraft and the 3 in against high flying aircraft.

You can see thae nature of the problem, as the info you have appears to be the higher formations, and it would be good to know more about regiment level - I hope that make some sense. I did a quick search at the national archives and I cannot find anything using the key words that you supplied (but that does not mean they dont have anything that would be of help - it simply means their search engine is not very good).

[P Bellamy]

Document B117 is Army Form B117, the B indicating it is for use at Regimental and Corps level.
AF B117 specifically is a "Report on Injuries (other than wounds received in action)".
I'm unsure where the AF B114 comes into things though, as that form is "Report on NCOs and Men recommended for training as Cooks".

The "NO/Coast Arty Group" looks like the number has been omitted/hidden for whatever reason.
Most Coast Artillery Groups were retitled as Coastal Artillery Regiments in June of 1941, the 10th Coast Artillery Group becoming the 548th Coastal Artilley Regiment for example before eventually disbanding throughout late 1943 and 1944.

Regards the Leicestershire Artillery, the pre-WWII Leicestershire Yeomanry (Prince Albert's Own) was split into two new units and became part of the Royal Artillery in February 1940, becoming the 153rd (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment, RA and the 154th (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment, RA.
The 153rd was assigned to the Home Forces in the UK, and came under the Guards Support Group from late in 1941.
This became part of the Guards Armoured Division, and from June 1944 the 153rd provided artillery support to the division through North-west Europe equipped with 25pdrs in Sexton self-propelled guns.
The 154th was assigned to the Middle East Forces from June 1942, fighting under various commands in North Africa, Italy and ended WWII in Austria.

In 1947 both units were recombined as the Leicestershire Yeomanry (Prince Albert's Own), T.A., and transferred to the Royal Armoured Corps.
Their association can be contacted via the chairman:

Major Luke Smith TD
28 Beveridge Street
Barrow on Soar
Loughborough
LE12 8PL

lukesmith967 AT btinternet.com

Hope that gives you something to work with.
All the best,
PB

[Carol]

Thank you so much for all of that wonderful information, Mr. Becker! I have printed it all out, and will have another look at the documents that the MOD sent me, to see if I can now make more sense of what they contain. I will definitely check into the Rifle Brigade yearbooks! I so appreciate your help!

All good wishes,

Carol Barton

welcome aboard.

I may not have all of this correct, but here goes!

GNR = gunner which is the Artillary version of private (pte)

AA would be likely be anti aircraft in the context you have quoted RA is Royal Artillery

The Leicestershire Artillary is likely the Leicestershire Yoemenry, which I think was at that time an artillery Regiment. This likely explains the rank of Lance Corporal, the RA rank would have been Lance Bombardier.

Confusing, yes but a army career well worth filling in the gaps

for further reading, and I have not looked into this, you may find that his Regiment (s) published "year books" (eg The Rifle Bigade Association published The Rifle Brigade Chronicles) If these were published for your fathers Regiment, they can probably be picked up used from something like ABE Books

Hope this helps in a small way

[Carol]

Thank you so much, Paul (if I may). I have printed out your response, too, and will have to take these phrase by phrase when I can assimilate them against the information in the actual documents. It would be easier if I were in London ("oh, to be in England . . . ") but I haven't been able to cross the pond in a couple of years, thanks to this atrocious economy. Not being military myself (and except for what is considered my "backwards"--English style--salute, knowing only the little I've gleaned from working in the US military/aerospace community) I am at sea when it comes to guessing at British command structure in WWII, so your narrative is immensely helpful. I will do some more research, armed with your information, and let you know what I discover. Many thanks, once again, for your thoughtful response!

Carol

Welcome to AiX Carol. That is a difficult one to give a definitive answer straight away. You have to first understand a little about the command structure. At the start of war, Anti-Aircraft Command was divided into seven AA divisions (1 to 7), it was then re-organised in the spring of 1941 into 12 divisions under three Corps, but all this changed at the end of 1942 when divisions and corps were replaced by six AA groups. At the lower end of the hierarchy there were three main tiers of command which actually stayed constant throughout the war. Below a division, was a brigade, below that were regiments and then regiments were sub-divided into batteries which were made up of platoons which manned the guns. The 1st AA Division as far as I can tell were responsible for the defence of London. The Z may refer to ZAA, a 3 in or 2 in rocket projector, the launchers have up to 20 barrels - the small versions used against low flying aircraft and the 3 in against high flying aircraft.

You can see thae nature of the problem, as the info you have appears to be the higher formations, and it would be good to know more about regiment level - I hope that make some sense. I did a quick search at the national archives and I cannot find anything using the key words that you supplied (but that does not mean they dont have anything that would be of help - it simply means their search engine is not very good).

[norwichpaul]

Carol, if you can find the regiment, battery or platoon I can tell you where he was stationed or if you give me a place name I can probably tell you the regiment, battery and platoon - well in theory but it would be interesting to put it to the test.

[kebecker]

Thank you so much for all of that wonderful information, Mr. Becker! I have printed it all out, and will have another look at the documents that the MOD sent me, to see if I can now make more sense of what they contain. I will definitely check into the Rifle Brigade yearbooks! I so appreciate your help!

All good wishes,

Carol Barton

You may find this link to the Royal Artillery Associations web site helpful, or at least a start to your reserach http://www.theraa.co.uk/

PS I only used the RB Chroinicles as an example, but I suspect the RA and its associated regiments must have somethiong similar

[Carol]

I just composed a full transcription, and the system timed out on me, Paul! If you can give me your e-mail address, I'll send you a scan of the "STATEMENT of SERVICES" so you can see it for yourself--but I think his first assignment was to the 1st Anti-Aircraft Division Z Training Regimen, Royal Artillery. The second looks like the 515 G Regiment of the Leicestershire [Artillery?], WOUN. Ref 44331 (AG6a) dated 29 November 1943, and the rank is private (PTE). Then (at Donna Nook) he is a lance sergeant (L SGT)--is there such a rank?--at the first reprimand (for lying and failing to comply with an order) on 3 December 1945; the rank at 24 April 1946 (also at 292 PW Working Group) is Lance Corporal (L/CPL), but it says that he was "deprived of L/appt" by the commandant for being AWOL from his post as duty clerk.

Does any of that help?

[Carol]

Hi again, Paul, and thanks! I've responded to this twice, and both times apparently lost the message. :( The short answer is, it's hard for me to tell. The long answer (a transcription of what the forms say) is what disappeared when I tried to send it. Here's some of what I wrote earlier, updated:


Per his service records from the Army Personnel Centre in Glasgow, Abraham Alfred Cohen (ID 1787698) served in the British Army from 10 April 1941-12 Aug 1946. His original assignment was to the Leicester R 070 Regiment (R.A. [CD] is crossed out after that, along with something no longer legible) as a lance corporal. The nature of the engagement is "AC" or "OC" (perhaps Artillery Corps?). His industry group is WE, and his occupational classification is 363-10 (stricken) or 364/50 (written above it). His medical category is a hodgepodge: A1 and A2 (both stricken), then 132/113, B7, 179C, B4, 179C, 53/221 TL, F36, following by something illegible and 2 2 9 39.

Dad was last stationed at Donna Nook Airfield. He enlisted at the rank of private (“pte”), and was apparently assigned to the "1st AA [anti-aircraft] Div 'Z' Tr[ainin]g Reg[imen]t R[oyal] A[rtillery]". On 5 June 1941, he was sent to the "NO/Coast Arty Group" (North Coast Artillery Group?) with a rank of GNR (“gunner”). He was promoted to Lance Corporal on 14 October 1942, a rank he held until at least 10 August 1943, according to his promotions list.

Then on 5 December 1943, Dad agreed to service overseas, and was transferred to the Leicestershire Artillery [Yeomanry] (Leicester R70, according to AFB 104-1).[1] He was wounded on 29 November 1943 "Ref 44331 (AG6a)," Apparently, he received a head wound serious enough to be "likely to interfere with efficiency" (a statement labeled "B117") on 12 May 1944 (that one is labeled "B114") according to the identification of abraham alfred cohen on joining. Dad never, ever spoke of his experiences in the service, but he received the defence medal and war medal 1939/45 (same document).

His STATEMENT OF SERVICES says 54/41 1st AA Div Z Trg Rgt on enlistment 10 April 1941. Then via an order dated 12 April 1941, he was posted to 1st AA Div "Z" Trng Regt RA [1st Anti-aircraft Division Z, Training Regiment, Royal Artillery], rank GNR [gunner]. Under that line, in the "unit" column, is entered C/B/j (?). The next entry is 62/41, No/ (or maybe "NO1"?) Coast Arty Group, 6 May 1941. The rank is Gunner. There is a series of alphanumerics below that which looks like "WO.VPT.BM-16q Hq (AG6d) [illegible] 2-5-41 (02 May 1941).

He agreed to serving overseas and was transferred via 145/43 to 515G Rgt, Leicestershire Artillery, an entry which is followed by what looks to be WOUN. Ref 44331 (AG6a) dt 29-11-43 (29 November 1943). His rank was PTE [private].

There is another (untitled, unnumbered) form that looks like an index card (and in fact says "dates on which Amendment Slips were sent to Central Card Index" at the bottom. In the "Postings" column, it reads:

11/40 13th 20-6-40

200/44 ISTC 15-11-44
1401/45

PM[?]164/16944 21 HLDG BN 31-10-45

The "Promotions" column says:

189/42 U/A/L/C 14 10/42 (14 Oct 1942)

204/42 L/CPL/Pd 14 10/42 (14 Oct 1942)

103/43 U/A/Cepl 12 5 43 (15) May 43

106/43 a/cpl pd 12 5 43 (12 May 1943)

158/43 W/CPL 10/8/43 (10 August 1943)

Can you make heads or tails of any of this?

All good wishes,

Carol

Carol, if you can find the regiment, battery or platoon I can tell you where he was stationed or if you give me a place name I can probably tell you the regiment, battery and platoon - well in theory but it would be interesting to put it to the test.